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The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

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Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay is comically non competitive - a fraction of what it would need to be to reconstitute the sixties.

Pay for teachers has ALWAYS been terrible. Governments are shit like that. But you know what teachers got? Respect. Teachers were part of the elite that ran the village.

Yes, but you can get away with it when you keep 51% of the ultra-high quality brain power of society in bondage. If you want to replicate American greatness under conditions of free competition, you must ~triple the wage. People do not think through what America had in its public schools in the postwar period and expect good results when wages have fallen behind even nursing. Ask your preferred AI to compare nurse:high school teacher:dentist:physician between the 50s and today, keeping in mind that high school teacher pay was grossly suppressed by the bondage of women. The teaching staff of American greatness and economic dynamism was ultra-highly educated women who were paid basically nothing. Teachers are paid in a much lower proportion to e.g. physicians - another hightly trained service, than they were in the 50s. The difference is that women can be physicians. Educator wages and thus competition for them is infinitely too low in contemporary America. If you want to bash teachers, I'm fine with that, the fact is we get what we pay for.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#143
post #57

A lot of issues require holding two ideas in your head at once. Age verification chips away at privacy and internet freedom. It likely also reduces harm to some/many/whatever children, even if it’s imperfect and won’t stop everyone. The interesting question is where the right trade off sits. People often end up arguing only one side.

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Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#144
post #45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright covers a broad spectrum of properties. Most teachers have been asking for more resources for decades, warning of the consequences of not doing so. It seems a little on the nose to ignore their warnings and when the consequences manifest opt to blame something else entirely.

It doesn't seem like there's been a precipitous drop in resources compared to the decades of requests and warnings that have led up to this point. So what's different now, if not resourcing?

There hasn't been a preciptious drop in outcomes either. There have been statistically significant drops in average test scores, but the large number of students who take those tests means that even small differences can be statistically significant. Generally, the average test score just fluctuates within a few percentage points over the long term. The differences between individual students are much larger. If you pick two random students in a year and compare their scores, they'll likely be much farther apart than the average scores of different years.

As a corollary, the variation that people personally experience at small scales (e.g. high-school teachers comparing the various students they encountered throughout their career) is dominated by changes in class composition. Some years, there are just randomly more bad students than in others. When the students seem to be getting worse over time, the teacher might attribute this to societal decline; when the students seem to be getting better, they credit their skill at teaching instead.

Thus things are constantly getting worse and the sky is falling, yet somehow it never makes contact with the ground, and when you compare with ancient records, it's more or less where it has always been.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that how it should work? The worst of us can’t be trusted to to behave appropriately in one area of life, therefore everyone must be banned from it?

Yes, if US tech companies exploitative behaviour is a net negative for children in our society then banning it doesn't seem unreasonable.

It would be sensible to ban the exploitative behaviour in that case, no? IMO the bad parts of social media are equally bad for adults and children.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#146

To the people that agree social media is somewhat bad for children (I wish it didn't exist for adults). What do you propose the government do, if not banning it via internet restrictions? I don't see anyone offering alternate solutions in these conversations and I think the ban is a necessary evil I do however think the ban should be more nuanced

device-side restrictions; improve the UX for parental restrictions and make them on-by-default for children.

When you buy a device, if you can't present ID (or the device is for a child), the vendor gives it to you in "child mode." Child mode has a whitelist/blacklist of all apps and websites that it can use. The list is set by the vendor, but modified by the federal government, state/provincial government, municipal government, school district, and parent/guardian (in that order, each overriding the previous.)

Perhaps in addition, devices in "child mode" always attach "do not show me adult content" to the HTTP headers they send to websites.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#147
post #117

The requirement to show ID is not to perform age verification to ban children from services. The requirement to show ID is so that every user (especially adults) online can be real-world identified and located . This allows the state to privately and quietly retaliate for any sort of posts or publications or link-sharing that they don't like. It's a ban on anonymous publishing, anonymous speech. It's so that they can…

my government is implementing a ZKP protocol to solve this problem. So is brazil. (bifold open wallet.)

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you're cutting off the qualifier with your selected quote. They are clearly talking about online freedom: > this takes a sledgehammer to the core of internet privacy. In all cases in the world where this has been done before like China or Russia, freedom is also lost shortly after. Russia's first online censorship was for truly abhorrent things. It moved on to become a ban on things the government didn't like…

>It wasn't overnight, but it was a constant effort by those in power to erode privacy and freedom yes because Russia is a dictatorship. These recent age limits on social media have had broad public support and are widely supported by parents. Not having your kid grow up on a combination of porn, gambling and body dysphoria and their data exfiltrated by a US mega-corporation isn't the dawn of internet censorship. What…

> Having your kids grow up free from that crap doesn't make you China

Who said that it does? I think you're kind of missing the point here, and it seems rather intentional to be honest.

> their data exfiltrated by a US mega-corporation isn't the dawn of internet censorship

Instead, all adults must submit their PII to those same "US mega-corporations" to verify that they are adults. You realize that the social media companies absolutely love this, right? They support this.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/uk-to-require...

> People are free to live by different values than Americans

Has nothing to do with being American. I don't even get how you got to that?

> Japan and China both have strict gun control laws, but Japan's a democracy

Ok? They also both enjoy sunsets and long walks on the beach.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if US tech companies exploitative behaviour is a net negative for children in our society then banning it doesn't seem unreasonable.

It would be sensible to ban the exploitative behaviour in that case, no? IMO the bad parts of social media are equally bad for adults and children.

No, this is pretty arguably in the category of things that are more harmful to children than adults (gambling, drinking, etc). I'm not saying that we shouldn't ban it for adults - only that the impact is not equal.

Re: The UK's Teen Social Media Ban Is Political Theater, Not Child Safety Policy

#150
post #140
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of tech controls that exist for children's personal technological devices that do not require the state to intervene.

They cost money or take many hours of time. Many families have neither. For the record I’m not a fan of the way this stuff is being pushed. At the same time, I feel like a lot of people are totally out of touch on a lot of the reasons why some people support this.

> They cost money or take many hours of time. Many families have neither.

The time can be amortized. Parental controls don't have to be set up in one sitting. Take the phone away for 2-3 weeks (during summer break if there is one), spend 20 minutes (almost) every day adding parental controls, and give the phone back after everything has been set up. Allowlist websites and password-block app downloads. Child needs the phone on weekdays? Instead add parental controls once or twice a week, across 4-6 weeks.

The parents are already shelling out for a smartphone (because dumb phones are getting harder to buy, because peer pressure, because advertising, because some schools assign smartphone-based tasks, but nevertheless). The money aspect of elitism is a sunk cost. The next obstacle is the technical literacy aspect of elitism. What the parents need is the knowledge to use parental controls and the understanding that parental usage of parental controls should be almost not optional. I know most parents won't seek all of that knowledge on their own because lack of knowledge begets lack of enthusiasm, so this is where the government should be stepping in. (Also, the government should mandate that all stock Android/iOS devices have parental control features without necessarily mandating that the manufacturers or sellers turn those controls on before sale.) Have schools send emails and snail mails with big bold scary letters in English and Spanish: This Will Affect Your Child's Grades. Please Put Parental Controls On Your Child's Devices. Come To Our PTA Meetings About Parental Controls And Watch The Recordings If You Can't Attend.

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