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10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

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Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#141

Post by navigate8310 »

drnick1 wrote: post #42
thefz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever ran a single mode bidi fibre in a conduit? Push a wire puller, cleave and terminate ends, done. Zero effort unlike pulling a jacketed CAT7 cable, zero worries from electrical interference too, future proofing up to 40GBps. I ran double strands in my house so in case one breaks, there's another. The floors where native fibre is not needed have a cheap ethernet media converter from fs.com, everything else (3 floor…

The issue with this setup is that you need an extra switch with an SFP+ uplink or media converter in each room or place where Ethernet will be used. And then you still need Ethernet cables anyway for the end devices. I can't justify this complexity for 40Gbps when I can now get 10Gbps inexpensively and conveniently.

Well, if you live in a multistorey house, each floor can be interconnected by bidi fiber, then you simply run ethernet to the end points.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#142

Post by throw0101a »

Keyframe wrote: post #134
toast0 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10g, sfp+ switches are cheaper and more available than 10gbase-T switches. Fiber transceivers seem reasonable, but I could be off; I've only looked a little at fiber prices, I already have cat5 in the wall, so I'm on DAC for nearby stuff and twisted pair for other rooms for the forseable future. I don't really need 10G, but it provides a bit of fun.

for shorter runs you might even get 10G on cat5.

802.3an officially gives you 10G on Cat5e (and plain-6) up 55m; 6A gets you to 100m.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#143

Post by eemil »

Homelabbers, please look past twisted pair. 10 GBit is way past the point of diminishing returns, it's why your NICs are so easily overheating.

Fiber is affordable, and for short distances you can use direct attach copper cables. Basically two SFPs hardwired together. You can order a 3 meter 10 GBit DAC cable for like 20 bucks. And they can be had in lengths up to 10+ meters.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#144

Post by Fnoord »

jiveturkey wrote: post #131
Fnoord wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have ten gigabits throughout most of my house, and you're right: copper is not happy pushing ten gigs. DACs are copper, and they're happy. > I have another Thunderbolt dongle that has an SFP+ module, so I ran a fiber line from my switch to my computer, and that runs considerably cooler. That's what I use nowadays. This is also what I am doing, and I love it. Much better and more reliable than WLAN. I want as much…

> DACs are copper, and they're happy. Well come on. GP really means category cable (twisted pair copper) is not happy at 10Gb distribution lengths (so-called horizontal cabling, although in a home it may span multiple floors without IDFs). That's kind of obvious context. DACs are not category cable; they are twinax, short, and bulky.

Still, it is useful to mention.

If PoE required: use copper twisted pair.

If both sides SFP+ (preferred, but not always possible):

Physical presence: DAC (very cheap).

Not physical presence (e.g. has to go through wall, floor, or longer distance): fiber (OM3 are very cheap but apparently the color being translucent is regarded as nice).

Else: copper twisted pair.

I've applied this on my (rental) house. One server has a 10 gbit copper twisted pair NIC because it also has a PCIe switch with M.2 storage on the same physical PCIe board. Two WLAN APs are powered by switch in fusebox. The Unifi Protect appliance is also powered by twisted pair copper. But I was also able to get an OM3 fiber through the same wall hole.

And always terminate at walls. So if a cable in house goes bad, the one through the wall or the socket is unaffected. Works with both fiber and twisted pair copper.

You can already notice it in this post. DAC barely is part of the content. It is fire and forget, no caveats, lowest latency and lowest power usage. So it tends to be forgotten, but a DAC cable is useful if both devices got physical (vicinity) presence. An alternative could be networking over TB.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#145

Post by KeplerBoy »

readingnews wrote: post #59
PaulKeeble wrote: post #27

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now h…

Totally agree, I went to fiber years ago, and the decrease in latency makes it _feel_ so much faster than 10G copper, it is not funny. Besides, if you put in the "good stuff" them moving to 40G and beyond is not a problem later on. Like others said, just add a copper line for POE devices, but for systems... its fiber all the way.

There's no way you could feel even a millisecond in latency difference and that would be a lot.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#146

Post by AshamedCaptain »

Keyframe wrote: post #134
toast0 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10g, sfp+ switches are cheaper and more available than 10gbase-T switches. Fiber transceivers seem reasonable, but I could be off; I've only looked a little at fiber prices, I already have cat5 in the wall, so I'm on DAC for nearby stuff and twisted pair for other rooms for the forseable future. I don't really need 10G, but it provides a bit of fun.

for shorter runs you might even get 10G on cat5.

I am using 10G over an ~15m 4 twisted pair phone cable (PTT, common in France even decades ago for ISDN, but no cat cable at all) and don't remember seeing a frame lost in quite some years.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#147

Post by ExoticPearTree »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #27

I feel like we have moved into the era now where if you were putting cabling in the walls for networking you should be choosing fibre now. Not necessarily because we are definitely at the stage where the home needs it, but because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s and its really high consumption and heat. Switching to fibre after 2.5gbit/s seems like the thing to do now and plenty of us now h…

Yes, definitely you should run fiber through the walls. And leave more in the walls in case you need to route it somewhere else in the future.

The upside of this is that you can increase bandwidth as the technology evolves without needing to rerun cables anytime a new specification is created for high-speed copper. OM5 fiber can do up to 400Gbps for short distances. Maybe in the future you can bundle a few pairs up and have a remote GPU sitting somewhere.

The downside is that you may need MCs, but they are small and can be hidden in wall outlets.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#148

Post by fooblaster »

m348e912 wrote: post #110
whatever1 wrote: post #109

To calibrate the discussion, you can get 10GB/s Wifi 7 these days spending less than $200 on a router. No need to drill a single hole in your house/apartment. Ethernet is dead for home usage. I wish companies gave a damn, but no, for the past 25 years we are stuck at 1GB/s. Only recently some laptops and motherboards started shipping with 2.5GB/s ethernet options.

> Ethernet is dead for home usage. If you need internet for work related audio/video conferencing, and you share your screen, wired is the way to go. Over time you can tell which colleagues are on wireless and those that are wired in. Perhaps you're making the case that wifi7 is as good or better than wired but I would argue that depends on your physical setup and possible interference issues.

Please tell me what your ISP is. I don't even have 300mb upload in the San Francisco Bay area.

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#149

Post by jcelerier »

Gigachad wrote: post #105
jcelerier wrote: post #81

It's crazy to me to think that I was hoping to move my home network to 10GbE in the next few years, around 2006-2007... Twenty years after most home networking is still at the 2005 level of a 30€Netgear GS108

Wifi got insane upgrades over that time. Wifi 7 is usually faster than most ethernet setups now.

In throughput but not in latency, and especially not in variability

Re: 10Gb/s Ethernet: switching to a Broadcom SFP+ module

#150

Post by SoftTalker »

parl_match wrote: post #74
drnick1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need, because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use. I experimented with SFP for a while, but ultimately concluded that it isn't worth the effort to add SFP cards to PCs now that that low-power 10G Ethernet chips like the RTL8127 are available. High-end motherboards already have 10G Ethernet and soon lower-end models will too. 2.5G is practically standar…

> What for? Ethernet is what you ultimately need Is answered in the comment you responded to: > because the off ramp is clearly happening for ethernet at 10gbit/s As for > because that is what devices such as PCs and WiFi access points use We are looking to the future. If you're putting stuff in the walls, then you should try to target something that will be adequate both today, and in 10 years from now. Increasingly…

> I do think that the average home won't need more than 2.5gbps, pretty much indefinitely

Yeah I'm not seeing a need for fiber or anything more than CAT6. Most household devices use WiFi and I think that will continue. People don't like wires. They're unsightly, collect dust, get tripped over, etc.

I already have coax cable and telephone wiring in my walls that's unused. One computer in my house has a wired network connection. Everything else, TVs, laptops, printers, phones, tablets, miscellaneous "things" are all WiFi.

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