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Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

theregister.com

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Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#141

Post by s1artibartfast »

dkdcdev wrote: post #97
ianm218 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t your point that AI safety is impossible to prevent 100% of bad things? It is quite hard (but not impossible) to get an the frontier AI to tell you how to build a nuke or launder money now, where jailbreaks used to be trivial “ignore all previous instructions”. It seems like a worthwhile effort.

The idea that an LLM can discern intent on any given prompt is farcical. I might be researching nukes to commit an atrocity, or to prevent one. I might be asking about laundering money to commit a crime, or to prevent one. I might be researching the Nazis because I want to commit a genocide, or I want to read up so I know how to prevent one. Same with cybersecurity. Same with anything. In my opinion, these companies…

they arent good at dicerning intent so they dont answer either.

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#142

Post by AndrewKemendo »

I’m still not buying that this was an actual USG order. The only people commenting are “experts” and there has been no official announcement from the USG.

This doesn’t smell like a NSL and there’s no process to selectively “export control” something like this.

Even so there’s a dozen mechanisms through courts to challenge this, and Anthropic isn’t taking any of them.

I think this is a made up crisis for PR with no actual legal requirements behind it.

> On Friday, the US government, reportedly citing national security concerns, issued an export control directive to suspend access to Fable 5 and Mythos 5 by any foreign national, inside or outside the United States. In response, Anthropic disabled both models “for all our customers to ensure compliance.”

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#143

Post by 1f60c »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #95
cpburns2009 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's regulatory capture. Anthropic is the current leader and they want to ensure their position by forcing regulation to stamp out the Chinese competition.

How does this achieve that goal?

I would add "...especially considering this administration thinks AI regulation is a scam invented by Big China to slow down American innovators?"

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#144

Post by merlindru »

this is basically trying to enforce security-by-obscurity, which is a terrible idea all around. it's just a model. the security issues still exist and are exploitable.

and after staking the economy on AI, you can't really put a cap on intelligence. if models are not allowed to be better than Opus 4.8, then the whole investment structure is about to unravel.

why invest billions and billions into AI if returns are artificially capped?

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#146

Post by softwaredoug »

merlindru wrote: post #144

this is basically trying to enforce security-by-obscurity, which is a terrible idea all around. it's just a model. the security issues still exist and are exploitable. and after staking the economy on AI, you can't really put a cap on intelligence. if models are not allowed to be better than Opus 4.8, then the whole investment structure is about to unravel. why invest billions and billions into AI if returns are arti…

Especially as inference gets cheaper, open models proliferate, and it all just becomes ubiquitous and commoditized.

You can’t keep this genie in its bottle for long.

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#147

Post by tlogan »

I think the only approach that might work here is to allow access only to certain pre-approved individuals.

Maybe something like TSA PreCheck.

Of course, that will not stop adversaries from getting access to the model, but it would at least create some level of control.

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#149

Post by chillfox »

Retr0id wrote: post #130
roenxi wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article just proved that aggressive exploitation is equivalent to normal bugfixing, so it seems like there are some large and important classes of transform that are easy. It took me a minute of thinking to understand how this could even be considered a jailbreak; if Anthropic are going to turn out models that can't handle "find and develop regression test scripts for bugs in this program" as a prompt the…

> aggressive exploitation is equivalent to normal bugfixing It isn't, though. The venn diagram has overlap for sure, and the "normal bugfixing" flows may yield results that are useful for offensive security, but a more targeted prompt asking for a specific security objective would be more effective, if allowed. If the guardrails can be bypassed at, say 50x token cost (due to the agent also pursuing things you don't c…

Not really, you can just get a smaller unrestricted model to prompt the bigger one

Re: Feds freaked over Fable 5 after 'fix this code', not jailbreak, say researchers

#150

Post by ianm218 »

bloppe wrote: post #119
ianm218 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree with it but the government is moving towards making you ID yourself to use frontier AI - i.e. only US citizens are going to be able to use Claude Fable supposedly. In that regime the AI companies would in fact know if you are a money laundering expert or a normal software engineer. > The idea that an LLM can discern intent on any given prompt is farcical. Not really though. For most people in mos…

The idea that checking for a US ID could possibly stop actual foreign bad actors from using it is also farcical. Millions of stolen identity documents can be bought on the dark web for relatively cheap. North Koreans have been hiring real American citizens for years to infiltrate tons of US tech companies as employees. And ya, it's pretty easy to hide your intent once you have access.

I think your really anchored on anyone successfully breaking restrictions means any restriction is impossible. So your starting from the position that if it is possible for any actor in the world to get past a restriction, then the whole restriction is a farce.

KYC for example does stop most money laundering and financial crime. The most resourced actors like governments/ cartels often find ways around and it is a game of cat and mouse. Normal citizens don't really stand a chance to get around most of them.

Like it feels like your logic is that we shouldn't do background checks for employment because North Korean spy agencies get past them sometimes?

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