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Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

arstechnica.com

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Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#141

Post by Hikikomori »

tristanj wrote: post #140
Hikikomori wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And if you think paying a country tens of billions of dollars not to develop a nuke is a great deal, that incentives every other country to develop their own nuclear weapons. Iran was never paid any money, sanctions were lifted. Are you able to state a truthful point at all?

Did you conveniently forget what happened? To get Iran to agree to JCOPA, Obama gave Iran tens of billions to not develop nukes for 15 years. In 2016, Iran was paid $1.7 billion in cash as a result of the nuclear deal, and regained control of $100-$150 billion in assets. CNN: "US sent plane with $400 million in cash to Iran" Aug 4, 2016 https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/politics/us-sends-plane-iran-... President Barack…

Did you even read the article? It was Irans money in the first place, paid to the US for military hardware it never delivered, plus interest. Do you believe that Iran getting access to their own money is them being paid? Do you understand what these words mean? Or would you say that moving money between your own accounts paying yourself?

>The $400 million was Iran’s to start with, placed into a US-based trust fund to support American military equipment purchases in the 1970s. When the Shah was ousted by a 1979 popular uprising that led to the creation of the Islamic Republic, the US froze the trust fund. Iran has been fighting for a return of the funds through international courts since 1981.

>Are you able to state a truthful point at all?

Seems like a firm no on this one. All you have done is spout right wing talking points that are not based in reality and are even dismantled by the very article you sent but didn't read past the headline. Perhaps take a step back and consider what you are doing and if you are living in reality or not.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#142

Post by tristanj »

Hikikomori wrote: post #141
tristanj wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you conveniently forget what happened? To get Iran to agree to JCOPA, Obama gave Iran tens of billions to not develop nukes for 15 years. In 2016, Iran was paid $1.7 billion in cash as a result of the nuclear deal, and regained control of $100-$150 billion in assets. CNN: "US sent plane with $400 million in cash to Iran" Aug 4, 2016 https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/politics/us-sends-plane-iran-... President Barack…

Did you even read the article? It was Irans money in the first place, paid to the US for military hardware it never delivered, plus interest. Do you believe that Iran getting access to their own money is them being paid? Do you understand what these words mean? Or would you say that moving money between your own accounts paying yourself? >The $400 million was Iran’s to start with, placed into a US-based trust fund to…

That $400M had been frozen and disputed since 1981. It's zero coincidence Obama settled it the same day American prisoners were released and the deal took effect.

But the rest of your argument doesn't hold up. The $100-150 billion in assets returned to Iran dwarfs everything else. Iran received an enormous amount of money contingent on nuclear compliance, which incentivizes every other country to start a nuclear program for future leverage. With JCPOA, Iran literally got paid for having a nuclear weapons program.

You still haven't addressed the JCPOA missile and drone issue. Seems like you're avoiding it. JCPOA had zero restrictions on missiles or drones. Iran used the tens of billions it received from the deal to build its Shahed drone fleet and tens of thousands of missiles specifically designed to overwhelm air defenses. Plus, the 15-year sunset clause on enrichment guaranteed the nuclear problem would return anyway. The 2026 war is the direct result of this failed deal.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#143

Post by rbanffy »

brokenmachine wrote: post #113
rbanffy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to make the hardware modular and the lines easy to change.

So obvious! Why didn't they think of that?

The notion that assembly lines can’t accommodate fast-paced change is very early 20th century. Modern assembly lines are very flexible.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#144

Post by dzonga »

spwa4 wrote: post #21
nehal3m wrote: post #13

Don't those Shaheds run on nVidia Jetson? Jensen cashing in again. Funny that most of the hardware in those drones is designed in the US. Stop hitting yourself.

No, they don't. In fact nvidia is one of the few that's NOT involved. It's definitely a group effort: https://militarnyi.com/en/news/czech-engine-and-western-elec... Component / part Company Company country Public factory / manufacturing-origin info TJ150 turbojet engine PBS Velka Bites Czechia EU Czechia; manufacturer is PBS Velka Bites TW1721 GNSS antennas, block of 4 Calian / Tallysman Canada Canada / West Ottawa,…

so most of the components of the so called cheap drone are western :(.

tragedy.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#145

Post by Hikikomori »

tristanj wrote: post #142
Hikikomori wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? It was Irans money in the first place, paid to the US for military hardware it never delivered, plus interest. Do you believe that Iran getting access to their own money is them being paid? Do you understand what these words mean? Or would you say that moving money between your own accounts paying yourself? >The $400 million was Iran’s to start with, placed into a US-based trust fund to…

That $400M had been frozen and disputed since 1981. It's zero coincidence Obama settled it the same day American prisoners were released and the deal took effect. But the rest of your argument doesn't hold up. The $100-150 billion in assets returned to Iran dwarfs everything else. Iran received an enormous amount of money contingent on nuclear compliance, which incentivizes every other country to start a nuclear prog…

Disputed? Its pretty clear that US took the money and didn't deliver goods.

The rest is Irans own money sitting in Irans own accounts that sanctions prohibited them from moving or using. Is your reasoning that the US paid Iran with Irans own money because they didn't decide to steal their money? You realize how insane this makes you look?

The deal was a first step in normalizing diplomatic relations with Iran, it wasn't perfect but its a good first step, and as US intelligence testified to congress, they were not working on a nuclear bomb. Or do you disagree with them? The war is a direct result of Trump/Israel starting the war after exiting the deal and ending diplomatic relationships. You see how its a situation entirely created by them?

I don't care about missiles or whatever else you bring up. If it wasn't nuclear programs, building missiles, you and Netanyahu would move the goalpost to something else.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#146

Post by trymas »

tristanj wrote: post #38
wolvoleo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Iran have the right to fire drones into other countries? If America hadn't started bombing Iran in the first place this wouldn't have happened anyway. Things would have been peaceful and oil prices would have been fine.

And if the US/Israel didn't strike Iran, Iran would have ICBMs with nuclear warheads, which Iran could use for peace. Did you forget the purpose of the war?

Is this sarcasm?

Bibi says this for 30+ years and there are no ICBMs.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#147

Post by spiderfarmer »

tristanj wrote: post #47
wolvoleo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pretense that has already been debunked you mean. Iran was nowhere near having nuclear weapons. The purpose of the war was keeping Netanyahu in power by having a constant war going on. And Trump went along because he was promised a quick win which he could have used to turn his midterms around.

> Iran was nowhere near having nuclear weapons. No, that's outdated. Iran had ~440kg of uranium enriched to 60%, enough for 9-10 nuclear weapons enriched to weapons grade. Given Iran's enormous centrifuge fleet, enrichment to enough material for a single weapons grade nuke would take 2-3 days. To enrich the entire amount would take 2-3 weeks. This comes straight from the 2025 IAEA report. https://armscontrolcenter.or…

"Thus, a renewed offer to retrieve Iran’s 60% enriched uranium “under the supervision of the Agency [IAEA],” as stated by Foreign Minister Araghchi, and to down-blend it to lower enrichment, along with a return to IAEA verification and monitoring as well as constraints on Iran’s future enrichment levels, would be extremely valuable and well worth bargaining for. "

Or, you could be very, very stupid and start bombing like maniacs. Without a plan, without allies and without justification.

During ongoing negotiations as well, making you SO UNBELIEVABLY untrustworthy that NO-ONE will EVER trust this idiotic regime ever again.

The stupidity is astounding.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#148

Post by spiderfarmer »

Hikikomori wrote: post #145
tristanj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That $400M had been frozen and disputed since 1981. It's zero coincidence Obama settled it the same day American prisoners were released and the deal took effect. But the rest of your argument doesn't hold up. The $100-150 billion in assets returned to Iran dwarfs everything else. Iran received an enormous amount of money contingent on nuclear compliance, which incentivizes every other country to start a nuclear prog…

Disputed? Its pretty clear that US took the money and didn't deliver goods. The rest is Irans own money sitting in Irans own accounts that sanctions prohibited them from moving or using. Is your reasoning that the US paid Iran with Irans own money because they didn't decide to steal their money? You realize how insane this makes you look? The deal was a first step in normalizing diplomatic relations with Iran, it was…

Thanks for being a voice of reason. It's pretty clear the person you're responding is repeating talking points they only support because their cult demands that of them.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#149

Post by tristanj »

Hikikomori wrote: post #145
tristanj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That $400M had been frozen and disputed since 1981. It's zero coincidence Obama settled it the same day American prisoners were released and the deal took effect. But the rest of your argument doesn't hold up. The $100-150 billion in assets returned to Iran dwarfs everything else. Iran received an enormous amount of money contingent on nuclear compliance, which incentivizes every other country to start a nuclear prog…

Disputed? Its pretty clear that US took the money and didn't deliver goods. The rest is Irans own money sitting in Irans own accounts that sanctions prohibited them from moving or using. Is your reasoning that the US paid Iran with Irans own money because they didn't decide to steal their money? You realize how insane this makes you look? The deal was a first step in normalizing diplomatic relations with Iran, it was…

So you "don't care about missiles." Convenient, because that's the entire argument you've been avoiding this whole time. JCPOA paused enrichment for 15 years and did nothing about the missiles and drones, the exact weapons hitting the every Gulf country, and the second I bring it up you just announce you don't care. And no, that's not a goalpost move, I raised missiles in my very first comment. You're the one who decided the strongest point against you isn't worth answering.

The money thing you keep circling back to doesn't matter either way. Whether it was technically Iran's own frozen assets or not, JCPOA gave Iran tens of billions dollars in liquidity, all of it tied to the JCPOA deal, and this money is what literally paid for the Shahed fleet and the missile stockpiles. JCPOA is how Iran paid for the tens of thousands of Iranian drones, and thousands of missiles. Money is fungible, the IRGC doesn't care where that money came from. It only matters to Iran that it received the money.

And "intelligence said they were complying" proves nothing. Complying with what? Enrichment limits that expire in 2030 and a stupid deal that never even mentioned drones or missiles.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#150

Post by tristanj »

trymas wrote: post #146
tristanj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if the US/Israel didn't strike Iran, Iran would have ICBMs with nuclear warheads, which Iran could use for peace. Did you forget the purpose of the war?

Is this sarcasm? Bibi says this for 30+ years and there are no ICBMs.

My mistake, Iran presently only has IRBMs, not ICBMs.

Iran's nuclear-capable Khorramshahr-4 missile has a range of up to 4,000 km [0], and the requirement for an ICBM is above 5,500 km. So you are technically correct.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iranian_strike_on_Diego_G...

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