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macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

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Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#141

Post by charcircuit »

adrian_b wrote: post #127
inventor7777 wrote: post #107

The comments there are absolutely insane lol, especially now that we know it's a bug. I did not realize that some people were still so anti-Apple. I'm of course not saying that there's not a small element of truth in many of the comments, but talk about some straw man arguments.

It was not a bug, it was just another undocumented Apple feature. However, when a company sells a device, as opposed to providing it for lease, I do not believe that it has the right to not document any feature of the device that is relevant for its usage, like it should also not have the right to impose any constraints on how the owner should use what has been bought. Obviously, the owner of any kind of things may n…

MacBooks are not designed to boot any OS other than macOS. Just because someone hacks one such that they get custom code running that doesn't mean all of that now becomes in scope for what is relevant for usage. Someone had to go above and beyond to hack the device to get another OS to run.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#142

Post by ralferoo »

adrian_b wrote: post #126
kjs3 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get clicks for "Apple bad", not for "there was this boot flag and once we figured that out problem solved".

The boot flag was undocumented, like most features of Apple devices that are required knowledge for being able to port another operating system to them. Because of this lack of documentation, every release of a new version of Apple hardware or software may require the restarting of the reverse engineering work, like in this case, just to keep working the alternative operating system.

The boot flag might have been undocumented, but so was absolutely everything else that was reverse engineered to make Asahi possible.

Rather than blaming Apple for this, the correct approach would have been to post something like "if you dual boot Asahi, don't upgrade to macOS 27 until you've done this".

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#143

Post by giancarlostoro »

GeekyBear wrote: post #25
vsgherzi wrote: post #10

It seems like this is a bug, apple went through the trouble to allow something like asahi to be possible in the first place. I doubt they're purposely trying to break it.

Apple designed a bootloader for Apple Silicon Macs that allows you to run an unsigned OS without degrading security when you boot into MacOS. This wasn't an accident. Macs have always allowed you to run another OS. iDevices have always had a locked bootloader. People shouldn't confuse the two.

Reminds me of when the Xbox 360 came out, Microsoft had to buy a bunch of Macs because Macs had PowerPC processors, so it was kind of a no-brainer to get the darn thing going quickly enough. Ultimately Windows was the standard way to build Xbox games but it is kind of funny to think, one day someone at Apple saw an order for easily several dozens of Macs from Microsoft, and wondered if hell froze over.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#144

Post by nosioptar »

br0wnr1c3 wrote: post #94
nosioptar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they allowed something similar on iphones, I'd switch to an iPhone the day an alternate os worked well enough for daily use.

why? In my mind the appeal of the iPhone is iOS. The hardware is nice, but so is the hardware of certain Android phones. I think it would be nice if we could run unsigned apps on iOS (in the US), but booting your own OS on an iPhone is a whole different story

I think iPhone hardware is better for the price on the used market. (I refuse to buy new phones. They're too locked down and shitty to warrant spending that much.)

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#146

Post by drfloyd51 »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #143
GeekyBear wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple designed a bootloader for Apple Silicon Macs that allows you to run an unsigned OS without degrading security when you boot into MacOS. This wasn't an accident. Macs have always allowed you to run another OS. iDevices have always had a locked bootloader. People shouldn't confuse the two.

Reminds me of when the Xbox 360 came out, Microsoft had to buy a bunch of Macs because Macs had PowerPC processors, so it was kind of a no-brainer to get the darn thing going quickly enough. Ultimately Windows was the standard way to build Xbox games but it is kind of funny to think, one day someone at Apple saw an order for easily several dozens of Macs from Microsoft, and wondered if hell froze over.

Back in the 2000s MS agreed to port Office and Internet Explorer to the Mac. This was a good move for both companies. Bill Gates appeared on screen during an Apple Conference to talk with Steve. Huge boos. Steve had to work the crowd back from the ledge.

Then Office and IE were ported. It was so weird running Word on a Mac. It was a good port too. They did a good job of embracing Mac UI ideas. I found the Mac Word better than Win Word.

I was kind of new to the Mac back then.

I imagine Apple donated a bunch of early OS 10 machines to MS for development. I wonder if the MS Mac Dev team was a pariah at MS.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#147

Post by throw1234567891 »

Teever wrote: post #6

I wish the EU would regulate this kind of stuff. A consumer shouldn't be restricted from installing their own OS on a device that they bought, be it a smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop, or server. A company the size of Apple should also be required to release proper documentation that enables the porting of operating systems to these kinds of devices. The reverse engineering work that the Asahi team did is remarkab…

Dude, you're talking about beta software. Get a fucking grip.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#148

Post by AKSF_Ackermann »

bigyabai wrote: post #124
inventor7777 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not (purposefully) granting them the benefit of the doubt. In my comment I simply noted that the comments there are extremely anti-Apple yet without any solid arguments behind them, and I also noted that the whole thing is just because of an APFS flag which could be fixed from Asahi's side. The main reason I made the comment is because I am shocked at how poorly backed the arguments are. As for Apple not helping…

When Microsoft futzes with the MBR and locks out Linux users, we complain. When Apple futzes with the APFS partition flags, we complain. It's not that hard to understand. > why would they, or any major OEM? Apple Silicon doesn't expose any obvious ACPI-equivalent power management interface. Apple could very easily document that hardware without exposing proprietary devicetree drivers, but someone internally must love…

> There isn't likely to be advanced power management drivers for Apple Silicon on Linux within this decade.

Amazing levels of confidence, when per Asahi's last progress report, one exists already.

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#149

Post by napolux »

GeekyBear wrote: post #25
vsgherzi wrote: post #10

It seems like this is a bug, apple went through the trouble to allow something like asahi to be possible in the first place. I doubt they're purposely trying to break it.

Apple designed a bootloader for Apple Silicon Macs that allows you to run an unsigned OS without degrading security when you boot into MacOS. This wasn't an accident. Macs have always allowed you to run another OS. iDevices have always had a locked bootloader. People shouldn't confuse the two.

People forgot already about Bootcamp

Re: macOS 27 Beta breaks the ability to boot Asahi Linux

#150

Post by aesthesia »

drfloyd51 wrote: post #146
giancarlostoro wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when the Xbox 360 came out, Microsoft had to buy a bunch of Macs because Macs had PowerPC processors, so it was kind of a no-brainer to get the darn thing going quickly enough. Ultimately Windows was the standard way to build Xbox games but it is kind of funny to think, one day someone at Apple saw an order for easily several dozens of Macs from Microsoft, and wondered if hell froze over.

Back in the 2000s MS agreed to port Office and Internet Explorer to the Mac. This was a good move for both companies. Bill Gates appeared on screen during an Apple Conference to talk with Steve. Huge boos. Steve had to work the crowd back from the ledge. Then Office and IE were ported. It was so weird running Word on a Mac. It was a good port too. They did a good job of embracing Mac UI ideas. I found the Mac Word be…

Word was originally released for the Mac in 1985, so the deal was not that Office would be ported, just that MS would keep developing Office for the Mac.
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