How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks • Hacker News Board

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#141

Post by Markoff » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 7:29 AM UTC

Grombobulous wrote: post #130

Markoff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will believe when I see it, until then it's just vaporware, let's see the price if they ship at all by the end of 2026/beginning 2027 maybe.

I think Slate can get it shipped, that won’t be the issue. The issue is that Slate has completely underestimated customer preference for four door vehicles. Two door vehicle variants have absolutely died off in the market and I’d say with good reason. Find a two door Jeep Wrangler. You’ll find 20-30 four door jeeps before you find a two door. Can you even imagine in 2026 the idea of an Accord Coupe, a Camry Solara, V…

demohgraphics with less and less chidlren being born and more and more single occupant households would beg to disagree with you, there surely is pretty big market for 3 doors cars

obviously 5 doors cars will suit bigger number of users, but many people just don't care

I mean my mother has some small Yaris which has 5 doors, but the back seat (height/head space) is so small I can't sit there anyway, so what's the point...

Btw. I am pretty sure cabriolets are still being produced, so are coupes, and obviously these are always 2 doors cars, those are not very good examples supporting your statement.

Also the new Suzuki Jimny was at release sold out for months/years in preorders.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#142

Post by collabs » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 8:20 AM UTC

WorldMaker wrote: post #139

pilotneko wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you see a F-150 Lightning new for less than $40k anywhere?

I didn't, I said that $40k is closer to $30k than many would give it credit and that I believe that at least $10k-$20k more expensive than necessary for "luxury trim reasons" seems to be the current F-150 brand.

What stops Ford or General Motors from creating a "startup" that is not bound by its existing agreements with its dealership network to sell a new vehicle direct to consumers "in select states" where the law allows this? I mean any state where the Tesla is sold should allow this, right?

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#143

Post by graemep » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 9:50 AM UTC

fanatic2pope wrote: post #92

graemep wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a national security and sovereignty issue that the European countries (and others) not facing - its similar to dependence on American clouds etc. A lot of these vehicles rely on OTA updates or are controlled through apps. This essentially means the manufacturer controls them. Imagine the consequences if half the vehicles in your country stopped working, or became unsafe? Do you really want to hand this power…

This type of concern could be ameliorated through the proper application of consumer protection laws concerning privacy and the right to modify and repair the things we own. The US doesn't want China to be able to spy on drivers because the US wants to be able to spy on drivers, which is why the proposed "solution" to your concerns is to simply ban Chinese cars. It's not about privacy or protecting consumers, it's ab…

That is a different issue. There are many European countries where people have a high level of trust in their government so it would less of a concern assuming they are right. I think they are mistaken, even if their current government is trustworthy, as you should plan for bad future governments actions too.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#144

Post by graemep » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 9:52 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #46

graemep wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a national security and sovereignty issue that the European countries (and others) not facing - its similar to dependence on American clouds etc. A lot of these vehicles rely on OTA updates or are controlled through apps. This essentially means the manufacturer controls them. Imagine the consequences if half the vehicles in your country stopped working, or became unsafe? Do you really want to hand this power…

> This essentially means the manufacturer controls them The thing is, this problem exists regardless of who the manufacturer is, and using nationalism to make it about China disguises the real problem. Tiktok didn't magically become safe or unsafe when it was divested.

When the manufacturer in turn is under the control of the foreign government it adds another problem. It is similar to how using AWS means your data is not safe from the US government.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#145

Post by graemep » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 9:59 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #32

graemep wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a national security and sovereignty issue that the European countries (and others) not facing - its similar to dependence on American clouds etc. A lot of these vehicles rely on OTA updates or are controlled through apps. This essentially means the manufacturer controls them. Imagine the consequences if half the vehicles in your country stopped working, or became unsafe? Do you really want to hand this power…

No, but at the same time, the established car manufacturers are very protective of their own stuff so they are disincentivised from e.g. building a car that works offline. John Deere is infamous for this, locking down their machines to the point that they would become scrap if the company ever went under (for example). But it's all capitalist forces, because while in theory new companies could start that make basic /…

Yes, a foreign company in control does all that and adds a sovereignty/national security issue.

> It's like people (on here) asking for open phone platforms or phones with smaller screens; they're a minority. Most people do not care.

That is partly because most people do not understand the benefits of open phone platforms. This is a lot easier to understand and similar issues have gained traction: e.g. sovereign cloud is much discussed now.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#146

Post by cucumber3732842 » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 10:06 AM UTC

greedo wrote: post #115

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety? More safety, always, is usually a feel-good measure. If people aren’t trading in their old cars for the newer, safer ones, because the latter are too expensive, it’s not actually helping people. Same if the cheapest car someone can get for their commute is bankrupting them.

Sorry, but this is a crock. 1. Seat belts - pretty sound investment. 2. Air Bags - excellent investment. 3. Crumple zones - outstanding investment. 4. ABS - outstanding investment. 5. Backup cameras - not worth the money if you don't value the lives of small kids. 6. Lane sensors - pretty handy, especially as your reflexes start to slow with age. Why aren't performance improvements scrutinized the same way? How often…

(Not) sorry (in the slightest), but this is a crook.

Stop getting your technical info from ideologues in the reddit comments. Each of those investments is an order of magnitude less valuable than the first.

Wear your seatbelt. That's 90% of the battle.

Crumple zones in particular punch below their weight class and are grossly misunderstood on the internet. Their primary purpose is to let the front of the car hit something before the cabin starts decelerating to buy time for airbag deployment. Force absorption is a secondary nice to have. They only make a meaningful difference to the forces in the cabin at a narrow range of speed.

Side curtain airbags punch above their weight class though because there's not much else to help you in that direction of movement.

ABS is pretty meh. It only really beats the operator by enough to matter in specific situations.

If your reflexes are so bad that the lane keeping is what's keeping you in the lane there's other problems.

I'm not gonna pick apart every one of these improvements and they do add value. But they do not add the amount of value you are acting like they do.

>Why aren't performance improvements scrutinized the same way? How often are huge trucks given a pass

Because you're simping vehicular safety theater. So where the dollars and cents actually matter, commercial trucks bought by commercial interests who can push back, what gets adopted is actually based on what's real vs emotion driven screeching. Like for example semi trailers got ABS real early. It's extra valuable in applications where weight changes a lot.

>despite never having anything in their truckbeds?

Because the 2nd row of your car gets so much ass?

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#147

Post by Grombobulous » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 10:23 AM UTC

Markoff wrote: post #141

Grombobulous wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Slate can get it shipped, that won’t be the issue. The issue is that Slate has completely underestimated customer preference for four door vehicles. Two door vehicle variants have absolutely died off in the market and I’d say with good reason. Find a two door Jeep Wrangler. You’ll find 20-30 four door jeeps before you find a two door. Can you even imagine in 2026 the idea of an Accord Coupe, a Camry Solara, V…

demohgraphics with less and less chidlren being born and more and more single occupant households would beg to disagree with you, there surely is pretty big market for 3 doors cars obviously 5 doors cars will suit bigger number of users, but many people just don't care I mean my mother has some small Yaris which has 5 doors, but the back seat (height/head space) is so small I can't sit there anyway, so what's the poi…

All of this is valid reasoning, and honestly, so many 2-door vehicles have left the market that it almost seems like there must be some level of unfulfilled demand. Just like how full size sedans have been discontinued all over the place but the Camry still sells big numbers: all the buyers have had to move by necessity to Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.

However, if you are bringing up about the Jimny I assume you are not thinking in the context of the US or European market (the Jimny was largely pulled from Europe since it couldn’t meet emissions standards, and Suzuki does not sell cars in the US/Canadian market).

In the US there basically aren’t any 2 door vehicles outside of specialty or performance cars. Similar to the station wagon situation, they’re almost all imported from Europe and from brands like BMW and Audi.

There’s a long list of discontinued vehicles in the rear view mirror.

The only new 2-door vehicle released that I can think of is the Ford Bronco and the new Honda Prelude that is just coming out, which Honda has already made a statement saying it’s a low volume vehicle (it’s a very unappealing vehicle, basically a very expensive non-performance coupe).

Brands that no longer sell any convertible in the US that once did:

Acura, Audi, Buick, Cadillac, Chrysler, Genesis, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Kia, Lincoln, Mitsubishi, Nissan, RAM/Dodge, Subaru, Tesla, Toyota, Volkswagen, Volvo

Brands that no longer sell a 2/3 door that once did:

Acura, Audi, Buick, Cadillac, Chrysler, Genesis, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Kia, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mitsubishi, Ram, Volkswagen, Volvo

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#148

Post by Grombobulous » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 10:32 AM UTC

retired wrote: post #140

Grombobulous wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Slate can get it shipped, that won’t be the issue. The issue is that Slate has completely underestimated customer preference for four door vehicles. Two door vehicle variants have absolutely died off in the market and I’d say with good reason. Find a two door Jeep Wrangler. You’ll find 20-30 four door jeeps before you find a two door. Can you even imagine in 2026 the idea of an Accord Coupe, a Camry Solara, V…

> I don’t understand how the practicality trade-off ever made sense. I did over 100k kilometers in two/three door vehicles. Back seat never had any passengers in them. Meanwhile it was easier to get into my car, visibility was better and the car overall looked better. Less things to break. Less weight. In my specific vehicle the three door variant had pillarless windows. No downsides for me.

I can understand your anecdote and even agree with it conceptually, but I don’t think the market agrees with you.

For ease of getting into the car, consumers clearly prefer the crossover SUV as the king of in/out ease.

For having less things to break and having a lighter car, I’m not sure those things are very common buyer sentiments as they relate to a four doors. I’ve never had anything related to my door break. The weight of my vehicle has never impacted me. I don’t even know how much my vehicle weighs.

As far as visibility, that’s just something where older cars always win out because of differences in crash and rollover safety standards.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#149

Post by Grombobulous » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 10:47 AM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #137

Grombobulous wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Slate can get it shipped, that won’t be the issue. The issue is that Slate has completely underestimated customer preference for four door vehicles. Two door vehicle variants have absolutely died off in the market and I’d say with good reason. Find a two door Jeep Wrangler. You’ll find 20-30 four door jeeps before you find a two door. Can you even imagine in 2026 the idea of an Accord Coupe, a Camry Solara, V…

> Two door vehicle variants have absolutely died off in the market and I’d say with good reason. People looking for a four door will walk away from a two door, and people looking for a two door will grudgingly accept it? Because either you get a small four door truck, or you pay for a f-150 cause you can still get that with two doors... but not if you want any of the neat features... no electric single cable f-150, n…

I think the truth of the matter is that the middle class no longer buys second cars or cars meant to perform one specific utility. Whatever car you buy has to fit all your needs.

The other thing is that a four door truck has both interior and exterior cargo space. If you have a two door truck you don’t have a place to put significant cargo in a place with locking doors. If you have a four door Ford Maverick you can lift the rear seats and stick a lot of luggage back there in the locked area rather than in the bed.

Essentially, you buy a Maverick and you get all the benefits of two types of vehicles.

I can buy a Slate with 2 doors and the price is under $30k which is awesome. But if I buy an F-150 for $40-45k it has 6 seats (front bench option) and it can be my primary family vehicle that replaces a minivan. It can also tow a trailer with significant weight or hold 1,000 pounds of gravel in the bed since it’s a body on frame half ton truck.

The reason the Ford Maverick doesn’t offer a two door is exactly the same: the primary buyer is using it for all the things you’d use a 4 door SUV or sedan for.

I don’t think the buyer of the Slate exists in significant quantities. Even work trucks seem to be purchased in 4 door variants often so you can fit a crew of workers inside. That’s what they’re called a “crew cab.”

In most places if I need a long bed I can just get a longer vehicle. I have a family member with an F-250 that has the extended cab and the 8 foot bed. Yeah, it’s a huge truck. But they don’t live in New York City or Chicago, and the length of their vehicle is never a problem. But what is a problem is if they can’t fit drywall in the bed, they can’t lock up their gear in the back seat, and they can’t carry four people in the vehicle.

If the market for the Slate existed there would be 2-door variants of the Chevy Colorado, Ford Ranger, and Ford Maverick already on the market.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#150

Post by retired » Thu, Jun 11, 2026, 11:48 AM UTC

Grombobulous wrote: post #148

retired wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t understand how the practicality trade-off ever made sense. I did over 100k kilometers in two/three door vehicles. Back seat never had any passengers in them. Meanwhile it was easier to get into my car, visibility was better and the car overall looked better. Less things to break. Less weight. In my specific vehicle the three door variant had pillarless windows. No downsides for me.

I can understand your anecdote and even agree with it conceptually, but I don’t think the market agrees with you. For ease of getting into the car, consumers clearly prefer the crossover SUV as the king of in/out ease. For having less things to break and having a lighter car, I’m not sure those things are very common buyer sentiments as they relate to a four doors. I’ve never had anything related to my door break. Th…

I’m talking about a vehicle that you can buy in either two or four door version. In that direct comparison the two door wins in ease to get in to, visibility, weight and less complexity. If you don’t use the rear seat the two door is a no-brainer.

Vehicle weight in many countries is important for tax, registration, insurance, fuel economy.