Live data from Hacker News

My Software North Star

kristoff.it

141–150 of 166 posts

Re: My Software North Star

#141
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Rust has an unsafe subset. There's a meaningful question about how to make such an unsafe language as easy and comfortable to use as possible, and Zig is a decent answer to that particular question. The libraries Zig ships with are especially relevant here, rather than the core language per se: Rust's library facilities are outright terrible to write unsafe code with, because the usual requirements of safe code…

Rust's library facilities are excellent for writing unsafe code with. Rust is very precise about which safety invariants must be upheld by which APIs, and does an excellent job documenting these, an excellent job at linting against improper usage of these APIs, and an excellent job leveraging the type system to reduce the need for unsafety in the first place. Writing unsafe Rust does indeed require its own degree of…

> but fortunately it's trivial to just not write unsafe Rust

The point of unsafe Rust is to "leave no room for a lower-level language". When writing lower-level facilities it's not uncommon at all to have to resort to unsafe. In practice, relying on the idiomatic standard library support within an unsafe block that might be breaking Safe Rust invariants is almost a sure way of shooting oneself in the foot as soon as the library function is doing anything more complicated than taking a pure value as input and returning a value as output.

Re: My Software North Star

#142
post #82
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> before Zig gets properly established. zig is reasonably established. the llms write pretty good zig. see project linked below which is almost entirely llm-written > And it is going to be very hard to justify choosing Zig for your sloppy-but-functional AI-written code why? because one project that was shipping fast made a dog's breakfast of it? > why open yourself up to memory unsafety on top of everything else? thi…

> the llms write pretty good zig I doubt this from my personal experience. Every week after a release, I see tweets complaining how AI wrote some depreciated code because Zig is making breaking changes every release. (They are valid in doing so, it's just not AI friendly yet)

claude and codex are pretty quick to figure out "oh that's not a thing anymore" and figure out what they need to do?

i did a 0.15 -> 0.16 port of this library and most of it the LLM did

https://github.com/E-xyza/zigler

Re: My Software North Star

#143
post #6

Damn this person's obviously is so bitter towards Rust... I wonder why he's so obsessed with it? I mean, if they really care about software correctness, I wonder why take a very discutibile position and say that "safety doesn't matter if you don't use the correct process". Yeah, I mean, having some guardrails is better than none, right? If they really cared about correctness, they would really strive to put all the p…

I don't get it. Are we reading the same article? This article is so generic that it reads like vacuous truth to me. But I don't see their bitterness towards Rust (or anything, really. It's just vacuous.) from it. Is this person a famous anti-rust'er or something?

Sorry I did not mean this as "this article is just picking on /ranting about Rust here". I don't think the author is! I meant as "if you want to state a general truth, why would you pick a specific language as bad example?".

In general, the article is ok-ish: it makes sense to think about the correctness (whatever that means... correct according to whom?), about the bugs (according to what specs?), the users (according to what use cases?). This is ill-defined and I don't like this framing. But even assuming I like the concept, why would the author say those things about rust specifically? This seems a bit like picking to me. Kind of not very honest, maybe?

I don't know or follow the author, just stumbled on this page because a colleague mentioned it, I don't know if there is a history of anti-rust'er or something, I just found something weird and sus.

Re: My Software North Star

#144
post #75

> It doesn’t matter that the language you use is memory-safe, if you didn’t design for correctness or have no process that will eventually lead you to fixing all bugs. After many years in the business I have come to a more pragmatic view. There is no meaningful way of distinguishing features from bugs. It doesn't matter that work tracking software usually does. Once you realize that the lack of a feature is the same…

> Once you realize that the lack of a feature is the same as the presence of a bug then "fixing all bugs" also means "adding all the features", then you also accept that you will never be done. This doesn't make sense at all. Your email software mangles my email. Or your media player randomly skips. That's a bug. No big philosophy needs to be hidden behind it. That your media player doesn't have the shuffle feature i…

Is email lack of encryption a feature or a careless bug due to lack of understanding it and it's potencial impact?

Re: My Software North Star

#145
post #4

Damn this person's obviously is so bitter towards Rust... I wonder why he's so obsessed with it? I mean, if they really care about software correctness, I wonder why take a very discutibile position and say that "safety doesn't matter if you don't use the correct process". Yeah, I mean, having some guardrails is better than none, right? If they really cared about correctness, they would really strive to put all the p…

from his about page: "I'm VP of Community at the Zig Software Foundation" EDIT: doesn't really answer your question. Just reminds me of a good ol' flamewar.

Thank you for this info! So they are on the payroll of the ZSF. It's likely just a marketing job then, and not a flame war, or maybe an opportunistic flame war.

Re: My Software North Star

#146
post #5

Damn this person's obviously is so bitter towards Rust... I wonder why he's so obsessed with it? I mean, if they really care about software correctness, I wonder why take a very discutibile position and say that "safety doesn't matter if you don't use the correct process". Yeah, I mean, having some guardrails is better than none, right? If they really cared about correctness, they would really strive to put all the p…

> Damn this person's obviously is so bitter towards Rust What makes you think that? > I wonder why picking on Rust specifically. I did not see that. What did I miss?

Well, maybe I'm biased! It just stood out, so I felt it was picking.

Re: My Software North Star

#147
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some really obvious things that are definitely bugs. If login doesn’t work if your email address contains the letter “e” when the expectation is all valid email addresses should work, then that is a bug. It isn’t “indistinguishable from a feature”. If clicking a button in your accounting software consumes all the RAM on your computer and causes it to crash, then there is no universe or agreed upon definitio…

>If login doesn’t work if your email address contains the letter “e” when the expectation is all valid email addresses should work, And what about the + symbol?

If an email address with a + symbol doesn't work then that is a bug because that is a valid email address.

Re: My Software North Star

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not need consistent propaganda preaching how it's a better choice than "insert other language". Indeed. There is an irrational urge in some folks to become language-missionaries. Usually such folks have gained expertise in that specific language and want to protect and expand their turf. There is a wide-range of software usecases requiring a variety of tools and no one language fits all. Amusing side-note.…

I think it's like this. People think differently. Someone finds a language that really fits the way they think, and it feels wonderful, and they feel like they've been let out of prison into this wonderful new freedom. And they, being empathetic humans, want other people to have the same experience, and they think that others will have the same experience if they just try this wonderful language. So they become langu…

Beautifully put and I agree, with one nuance:

There are multiple ways to think about how to write software, and that number really is not as high as various language proponents want us to believe. They aim at 50-100 but I'd say we got maximum 20, if not 6-7.

Point being: stuff is starting to converge IMO. It's not endless exciting diversity. "How to write software" (and adjacently: what PL to use) is just a boring multi-dimensional math problem at its root.

Re: My Software North Star

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can write memory safe code in C (Redis, SQLite, OpenBSD, Git, etc), Do you think that this is a list of software that have never had memory bugs? It really is not practically possible to completely avoid a large class of memory bugs in C in just about any kind of very large commercial or open source codebase. Redis CVE-2025-49844 ("RediShell"): use-after-free in bundled Lua parser https://github.com/redis/redis…

[flagged]

How is it meant to be taken, other than as a laughably naive statement which is patently false? It is not possible to write memory safe code in C.

It is also not possible to always write correct code in ANY language, but languages that eliminate entire categories of errors do see a reduction in those error rates.

But yes, there is always someone saying "just don't make mistakes, bro". Thank you, we hadn't thought of that.

Re: My Software North Star

#150
post #7

I imagine it's a difficult time to be a Zig developer. In the near term, Bun choosing to switch from Zig to Rust specifically to fix all the memory errors seems to have done the Zig community some psychological damage. But more significantly, in the medium term it looks likely that AI coding is going to overtake the industry before Zig gets properly established. And it is going to be very hard to justify choosing Zig…

I just assumed Bun users also suffer from psychological damage…
Post reply on HN