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Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

bbc.co.uk

141–150 of 157 posts

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#141
post #90

Reminds me of the opening to "Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson. In that book, a wet bulb event (high humidity and high temp) in India pushes infrastructure past the breaking point, the grid goes down, AC systems still running on generators are overloaded and overcrowded and fail, the water temp goes over body temp, and millions die. The positive cultural/societal reaction to the disaster strained my s…

I don't believe I have heard of KSR before, but I have been telling my friends that an incident like this is in our (the world's) future. It is feeling more and more imminent with each passing year. And then there will be cries of nobody saw this coming.

I believe the idea of a wet-bulb temperature event has reached just enough people that a "nobody saw it coming" would be very poorly received.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#144
post #51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a warehouse last year. Managers always breathing down my neck to work faster. Constant stress for 9 hours straight. (Okay, we got a lunch break at least. There are worse jobs!) It got me wondering. Alright, what's his problem. Well, his manager is breathing down his neck too. It's literally his job to make my day as stressful as possible. Okay, why? You trace that chain and where does it end up? Fat capit…

No profit margins or shareholders at all of course...

Well, it's just a slice of the picture. It's just the one nobody likes to talk about.

A different slice: went to the supermarket the other day, late on a Sunday. There were two workers in the whole supermarket, both elderly women in their 70s.

Economy sucks here so pensions are bad, they chose to keep working.

But obviously they didn't chose to work on Sunday night. They didn't have a choice there.

If they owned the place, they would have closed at a normal hour.

One of them let out an exasperated sigh when I walked in. More work for her, but not more profit.

I overheard one say to the other, "and then at the end of the month you go to the bank and collect 800 Euros."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH2pFTx_8VE

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#145

Reminds me of the opening to "Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson. In that book, a wet bulb event (high humidity and high temp) in India pushes infrastructure past the breaking point, the grid goes down, AC systems still running on generators are overloaded and overcrowded and fail, the water temp goes over body temp, and millions die. The positive cultural/societal reaction to the disaster strained my s…

This is a weird premise. India (and Bangladesh) has virtually 100% access to electricity and adequate generation capacity. The concept of temperatures exceeding the wet bulb temperature makes for a scary fiction novel. But I bet even my dad’s village in Bangladesh could afford to put a few cheap Chinese mini splits in the school building and other gathering places. They are extremely efficient in the heat and wouldn’…

> But I bet even my dad’s village in Bangladesh could afford to put a few cheap Chinese mini splits in the school building and other gathering places. They are extremely efficient in the heat and wouldn’t cause a huge strain on the grid.

Mini-splits have a maximum operating temperature in the 47-50˚C range.

The headline in this article seems to indicate some places have hit that limit, and so the external units (compressors) may not be able push the heat out of the refrigerant any longer.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#146
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are all like ants in an ant mill. Each of us is doing the things that locally make sense for us Easily lead by chemtrails, yes - but it is a fact that some individuals have disproportionately more influence over "local zeitgeist" than others. As a brief recap; the atmosphere become a greater and greater insulating blanket as a direct result of human use of fossil fuels was solid science as far back as 1967 [0] a…

> it is a fact that some individuals have disproportionately more influence over "local zeitgeist" than others. Yes, that was the first sentence of my comment. > As a brief recap; the atmosphere become a greater and greater insulating blanket as a direct result of human use of fossil fuels was solid science as far back as 1967 [0] and the larger more influential nations of the world accepted that finding and discusse…

> And yet, I still go to a grocery store and buy produce that was grown using fertilizer made from petroleum products, shipped across oceans on ships burning fossil fuels, then driven to the store in trucks burning fossil fuels, wrapped in plastic bags.

For what it's worth, I'm part of a rural community far far away from middle North America and eat and consume much as my parents and grandparents did (my father, born 1935) when they were young and during those times (WWI, WWII, Covid years) when we were isolated from much of the world.

My personal consumption habits are pretty damn lean - my professional consumption patterns have been large, although easily arguably subject to being amortised across tens of millions, and have led to kind of global resource mapping and geodetic data that this current generation should be using to address excessive fossil fuel consumption.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#147
post #7
post #2

"But global warming is a hoax. And even if it wasn't it's not our fault. People couldn't be the cause. And even if it is our fault there's nothing we could do about it." We have broken our world for the greed of a few. History will not be kind to us.

See I could agree with the first part. But then you add We have broken our world for the greed of a few . After that I sort of understand why so many folks reject the former – they're rejecting the empty moralizing. If you truly believe climate change is real then also admit that "We all have broken the world", except perhaps some uncontacted peoples in the Amazon. Anyone who has ridden in an automobile, a train, a p…

Fossil fuel companies have spent the the last forty years in an organized campaign to prevent the US (and by extension, the world) from taking action against global warming.

There's a great book on the subject called "Merchants of Doubt" by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#148
post #136
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comic is popular only because it absolves people of personal responsibility, not because it makes a great point.

In what way does it do that? It in fact strongly urges people to take responsibility and stop being hypocritical.

You're not taking the comic at face value are you? The orange shirt guy is supposed to be the loser who is just trying to "gotcha" the people in the other panels.

The comic isn't even _always_ wrong; sometimes people are using gotchas or accusations of hypocrisy to dismiss otherwise valid concerns. Importantly, just because someone is a hypocrite, that doesn't mean they're wrong.

But in practice, the comic is often used by as a get-out-of-hypocrisy-free card by people who never want to to take any personal action to practice what they preach. Example:

Alice: I loooove my new iPhone 2026 Supermax XXL, it's at least 0.163% shinier than last years model! Oh but I heard that seven Chinese workers died in the Apple factory and that is soooo sad! I wish that could be avoided somehow. Oh well!

Bob: I agree, working conditions in Apple factories are deplorable. If you want to do something about it, you can consider buying a Fairphone instead, or simply delaying upgrading as long as possible. You don't really need to buy a new phone every year, you know!

Alice: What? You expect me to walk around with last year's model like a poor person? I would literally die of embarrassment. And of course I _would_ totally buy the Fairphone if only it came in rose gold with sequin bedazzling which is an absolute necessity to match my purse.

Bob: Okay but these seem like really petty reasons to keep buying Apple products. I find it difficult to take your complaints about working conditions in Apple factories seriously when you're not willing to make any sacrifices or lifestyle changes yourself to improve the situation.

Alice: Oh, I see. You're one of those "gotcha" guys. [Link to comic] Here, this tells me you're just a smartass, and I can do whatever I like while complaining about whatever I want. After all, I'm _just_ like the medieval peasant who wants to improve society somewhat.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#149
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore is not mentioned in the wiki article on wet bulb temperature. And given that the maximum ever temperature in Singapore is 35-36 for most months, I doubt that a wet bulb temperature of 35+ is common.

When I visited Singapore most people retreated indoors to the AC from about 2:30-4:30 every afternoon. I don’t recall the exact temps then but the idea that everyone would be just fine in a severe heat wave leading to power grid outages is false.

I don't make any sort of claim of 'just fine'. I am saying there will be places and times where people cannot regulate their body temperature via evaporation, so they will die outside without AC within hours. And in Singapore that point hasn't been reached yet.

The point isn't that it's "just fine" right now, it's that it will get way worse.

Re: Mornings and nights no longer exist at 47C: A day in the hottest place in India

#150
post #106
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the season. "Everyday" was a poor choice of word, but 35+ wet bulb temperatures happen and are to some extent routine and expected.

Singapore is not mentioned in the wiki article on wet bulb temperature. And given that the maximum ever temperature in Singapore is 35-36 for most months, I doubt that a wet bulb temperature of 35+ is common.

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