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The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

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Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#141

Post by hparadiz »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #138
michaelchisari wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone worth their salt looked down on copy/paste from Stackoverflow, let alone blindly doing so. Where does this idea come from that good programmers were ever cool with that?

> Where does this idea come from that good programmers were ever cool with that? r/programminghumor mostly. It was always tongue in cheek, but people took it too seriously. However, the number of times I’ve gone over to help a colleague and realized they were trying to copy/paste code from SO, without even reading the context of the thread is baffling. Like, why did you expect it to work in the first place? I really…

Setting aside code examples from the internets for a moment.

I have seen entire multi million dollar operations running off the most horrible PHP spaghetti nonsense.

The base line is far below any floor you are thinking of.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#142

Post by Aurornis »

FuckButtons wrote: post #116
Aurornis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bifurcation is between people who want to write code and people who want to have the end product of the code. People who want to write code hate AI because it's doing the part they wanted to do. People who want the end product of the code love AI because they want anything that helps them get to the end product faster. The person who wrote this post feels oddly in neither camp. They like playing with the…

Well, you are learning something, just the thing you’re learning has an even shorter usable lifespan than programming languages, namely you’re learning what works to get useful responses from ai agents. Whether or not that has value to you is a different matter, but it’s worth bearing in mind something is being learned, even if it’s not engineering or programming.

> namely you’re learning what works to get useful responses from ai agents.

Having worked a lot with AI agents, I don't agree.

AI agents are amazing at producing response and results that look correct as long as you don't look too closely.

Even when I try to write extremely detailed specs and test harnesses, even Opus 4.8 and GPT-5.5 on max will find creative new ways to write code that breaks under real use cases.

Doing throwaway LLM output, playing with it a little bit, and then calling it done will create a false sense that you're really good at getting LLMs to produce working things.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#143

Post by pydry »

Aurornis wrote: post #88
iainctduncan wrote: post #63

I wonder how many of the responses here bifurcate by age. The post resonates with me, but I am now in my early fifties. When I was in my 20's and 30's, I would have happily chased rabbits down all those holes, but now that time seems so brutally finite, I feel that anything encouring me to spend time on stuff other than what really matters is a strong negative. (Where "what matters" includes work, family, friends, an…

I think the bifurcation is between people who want to write code and people who want to have the end product of the code. People who want to write code hate AI because it's doing the part they wanted to do. People who want the end product of the code love AI because they want anything that helps them get to the end product faster. The person who wrote this post feels oddly in neither camp. They like playing with the…

The bifurcation is probably mostly just along the lines of slop tolerance than whether they "like" to code or whether they're a boomer or whatever.

There are a lot of people with high slop tolerance and who are seemingly prepared to endure the side effects of that.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#144

Post by tyoma »

Aurornis wrote: post #88
iainctduncan wrote: post #63

I wonder how many of the responses here bifurcate by age. The post resonates with me, but I am now in my early fifties. When I was in my 20's and 30's, I would have happily chased rabbits down all those holes, but now that time seems so brutally finite, I feel that anything encouring me to spend time on stuff other than what really matters is a strong negative. (Where "what matters" includes work, family, friends, an…

I think the bifurcation is between people who want to write code and people who want to have the end product of the code. People who want to write code hate AI because it's doing the part they wanted to do. People who want the end product of the code love AI because they want anything that helps them get to the end product faster. The person who wrote this post feels oddly in neither camp. They like playing with the…

Agree this is largely the hidden issue much AI discussion misses.

AI industrialized a previously creative output. If you enjoyed the writing of code this is a nightmare. If writing code was a chore to solve a problem, this is a blessing.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#145

Post by Barbing »

a3764 wrote: post #99
nba456_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is. Young people are always more eager to adapt new tech while older people yell at clouds. AI usage is MUCH higher among young people.

No, GenZ is AI critical, no matter what a one-liner optimized model trained to discredit comments says.

GenZ is AI critical

Rest is a little stretch

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#146

Post by yoyohello13 »

hparadiz wrote: post #141
yoyohello13 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where does this idea come from that good programmers were ever cool with that? r/programminghumor mostly. It was always tongue in cheek, but people took it too seriously. However, the number of times I’ve gone over to help a colleague and realized they were trying to copy/paste code from SO, without even reading the context of the thread is baffling. Like, why did you expect it to work in the first place? I really…

Setting aside code examples from the internets for a moment. I have seen entire multi million dollar operations running off the most horrible PHP spaghetti nonsense. The base line is far below any floor you are thinking of.

Oh, I'm aware. You should see the legacy PHP intranet at my org.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#147

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Jordan-117 wrote: post #24

> In recent times, at least once per month someone sends a screenshot for an awesome tool they are working on. I'm like whoa, that's really something and the sender is obviously proud and enthusiastic. I try not to ask, but am always thinking "and where will you market it?" What a strange perspective. His dismissal of the long list of projects at the top is also odd. What's wrong with making something cool and functi…

> What's wrong with making something cool and functional (if not "useful"), even if just for yourself, without any profit motive or plan to turn it into some huge business?

The problem I've had is two-fold.

1. I'm making amazing things (from my perspective) but nobody is paying me for it. I have many friends like this. We're older, very senior engineers with decades of experience and a love of computers/computer science. And we're building the platforms and tools we always wanted to exist. Summoning them into existence.

And nobody is going to pay us a single cent for it.

That's fine, until your roof needs replacing or your AC unit dies, like mine did.

"Dismissing the long list of projects" may in fact be a result of this.

What we have now with these tools is the ability to do more projects than ever, and the result is the marginal value of each of the projects is dropping like a rock.

2. Given the choice between attending meat-space issues and making these things, guess what I choose?

That's a me-shaped problem, I know, but I think it reflects the personality of a lot of people on this forum.

I feel like I'm on a roller coaster, and am simultaneously on the leading edge of being able to do more than ever while the value of all that "more" plummets plummet plummets.

You can do more than ever and unless you're independently wealthy (or incredibly well connected) it will go nowhere at all.

Also half the joy of writing code was having other people use it.

When everyone is a conjurer with a staff, nobody is going to care about what you just brought into existence. Build it and they won't come.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#148

Post by delis-thumbs-7e »

Chatbots are social media of work. In Meta’s platforms you can pretend to be social and chase meaningless dopamines hits that appear similar we get from genuine interaction, whereas with AI agents you get dopamine hits from similar to doing good work and achieving your goals, while actually you just fried your brain doing making money for huge corporations. Similarly both you can use for genuinely good things, but one has to be extremely disciplined to do it and conscious of the trade off.

I think the answer is simply to not use LLM’s to generate much anything at all. When writing code I only use Claude chat (in separate virtual desktop on a browser) only when I can’t grok the documentation or the bug really kicks my ass. I rarely want it to even write the code, just to explain what I am doing wrong.

When I write the initial idea might be just me having a discussion with Claude (“What exactly was Marcia Williams’ hold on British PM Harold Wilson”) about a topic I am interested in and want a quick overview of the literature, but if I end up writing about it none of it is generated.

Claude just helps me to refine my thinking like a rubber duck that has in its palmate tips most all of information saved online. It is simply an extension of my intellect. The thinking and the work remains my own.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#149

Post by rafterydj »

root-parent wrote: post #70

For 20 years, Google had access to infinite amount of human based Phds, and fresh computer science graduates, and effectively unlimited budgets...and have been "hiring the best" for 20 years straight. This what they have been spending their human tokens on: https://killedbygoogle.com/ They are a decreasing quality searching engine who shows ads. It has never been about intelligence, or lack of resources. Its about in…

Wow. I've essentially been circling that exact thought for awhile now. But your blunt phrasing really strikes a chord with me.

Re: The solution might be cancelling my AI subscription

#150

Post by gitaarik »

throwatdem12311 wrote: post #61

Every time I try to let Claude go off and do stuff on its own it’s always pinging me to approve something. Even in auto mode. Impossible to really run at length without either constantly having your focus broken, or just running it with permissions disabled. I do it in a container from time to time, but then by the time I get back to it sometimes there’s just so much slop it’s impossible to reason. It’s a way of work…

As developers, we often hack our own tools to make then behave in the way we want. But it does take some effort to look up documentation and to think of creative solutions. That's what makes a good developer.
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