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BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

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Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#141
post #52

Can you just sue them over it? Sure they are a Chinese company but they also operate in Europe and US?

You can sue them if they have operations in a country you choose to sue in, or supply people in that country, or you can sue their importers and distributors. Maybe even marketplace sites if they sell through those.

Sue the ISPs for enabling piracy?

If their license is void, then distribution is illegal, right?

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#142
post #93

[flagged]

> People have a strong instinct for reciprocity and it is strongest when it is entirely their choice. My experience disagree with that statement. The places where I find the strongest form of reciprocity is when social norms heavily emphasize reciprocity and punish defectors, which is typical in environments where peoples survivability depend on social norms and reciprocity. A typical example is rural community vs a…

> The places where I find the strongest form of reciprocity is when social norms heavily emphasize reciprocity and punish defectors

I think it is important to make a distinction between chosen reciprocity and expected reciprocity. Both are valid but come from different circumstances and motivation.

If you are an open source proponent, how did you become one? For me, it was growing up at a time when the vast majority of software that I needed was not free. Then the open source movement took hold and brought a wide choice of high quality free software in virtually every category. This was software you can trust more, learn from, and build upon because the source was available. And the developers have little or no expectation, it was free even though it could easily compete with proprietary options. This made a big impact on me and helped me recognize the value of open source.

Survival is not a relevant concern when it comes to open source. I'd wager that most people who advocate for it were impacted by a similar experience. Expected and transactional reciprocity is something that people are more likely to see as a burden. If you want to spread an idea, it's not a very effective approach. People generally recognize and appreciate a meaningful sacrifice for a good cause. Attaching strings makes the sacrifice confusing. In a pay it forward kind of system, chosen reciprocity sends a much clearer message. And that may not always be the intent, but it is effective either way.

Some people, maybe even the majority of people, may choose to use it without giving back. That is also a part of human instinct. As someone else mentioned, corporations that care only about profit will take advantage of the opportunity. But the beauty of software is that it can be copied at virtually no cost. You can write software for the positive impact and let the others do what they will do.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyleft is about freedom of consumers to make whatever choice fits their target, unlike permissive licensing, which is about freedom of corporations to take away freedom of consumers.

Surprisingly, there are use-cases for closed source other than the of greed of corporations. A server is one of those use-cases. I love to see open source servers and have worked on them myself but there are obvious reasons why that is not always feasible.

I don't see why I'd refuse to use something like nginx just because it's open-source. If it's good, it's good.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, there are use-cases for closed source other than the of greed of corporations. A server is one of those use-cases. I love to see open source servers and have worked on them myself but there are obvious reasons why that is not always feasible.

Greed is a loaded word, there are economic realities of paying developers to create the open source software. Could you elaborate on the non-economic use cases you are thinking of?

That was my point too. There are valid reasons to go with closed source, open source may not be a viable option for a variety of concerns, including economic realities. The person I was replying to raised the issue of corporations that take and do not give back (which definitely exist) and I was responding to it.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some agencies literally had their own room 641A at telecom companies. People need to accept folks as they are, and not as we would like them to be. =3

"Some agencies" covertly installing equipment at, what, 3 companies (at most) out of the millions in the country is categorically different than overt and widespread installation of party members into high-ranking roles in hundreds/thousands of companies. Claiming that these are remotely comparable is either pure ignorance or blatant propaganda. Any sane person can see that these aren't in the same universe of things…

>Any sane person can see that these aren't in the same universe of things.

"When McKinsey Comes to Town: The Hidden Influence of the World's Most Powerful Consulting Firm" (Walt Bogdanich, Michael Forsythe )

https://www.amazon.com/When-McKinsey-Comes-Town-Consulting/d...

ad hominem rhetoric means one has chosen to be part of the despotism problem. Best of luck =)

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, there are use-cases for closed source other than the of greed of corporations. A server is one of those use-cases. I love to see open source servers and have worked on them myself but there are obvious reasons why that is not always feasible.

I don't see why I'd refuse to use something like nginx just because it's open-source. If it's good, it's good.

I love nginx and open source servers, that wasn't my point at all. I was referring to a backend that supports a business.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#147
post #46

Cannot agree more with Josef on how dangerous this is for our intellectual property; Of course there laws and mechanisms in China for the government to obtain any information retained by their companies under any possible justification, but the US does so, and thanks to the Cloud Act they can simply decide to do the same with any of the big players sitting in their territory (even to servers located out of their terr…

What's frustrating is that Prusa isn't too far removed from how Bambu works today. Prusa-Link (the onboard firmware) allows you to do very basic job control but has essentially zero machine control and very little telemetry. All the major functionality is behind their PrusaConnect cloud service, which they've now added a paid tier to, and which they've been promising for years to open source in order to allow print f…

I don't want to sound like a Prusa shill or anything, but if they see Chinese state-sponsored competition as an existential threat (and I see no reason to doubt either claim), then I imagine that, from Prusa's perspective, it's a losing proposition either way ("damned if you do, damned if you don't"): anything they develop in the open directly strengthens their competitor and doesn't elevate the playing field for the benefit of all (unpunished licenses violations) ; anything they keep to themselves turns Prusa further and further away from their ideological stance, more akin to their enemy and less relevant.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some agencies" covertly installing equipment at, what, 3 companies (at most) out of the millions in the country is categorically different than overt and widespread installation of party members into high-ranking roles in hundreds/thousands of companies. Claiming that these are remotely comparable is either pure ignorance or blatant propaganda. Any sane person can see that these aren't in the same universe of things…

>Any sane person can see that these aren't in the same universe of things. "When McKinsey Comes to Town: The Hidden Influence of the World's Most Powerful Consulting Firm" (Walt Bogdanich, Michael Forsythe ) https://www.amazon.com/When-McKinsey-Comes-Town-Consulting/d... ad hominem rhetoric means one has chosen to be part of the despotism problem. Best of luck =)

Yeah, that link isn't relevant to anything. You're just throwing out random garbage because your argument is invalid and you know it.

You're a propagandist.

Fortunately, the vast majority of people that I've talked to don't fall for this line of fallacy - I'm just making sure your lies don't fool those that happen to overlook them.

> means one has chosen to be part of the despotism problem

Yeah, this is unhinged. You need to up your propaganda training and/or change the LLM you're using to generate comments - this generally discredits your account extremely quickly.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#149
post #15

I can't help but wonder how could, Bambulabs or the Chinese government, actually mine that data? In my mind, 3D models fail into two categories: artistic and utilitarian, though there's a continuum between those two. With the artistic side, the Chinese government could find itself in possession of tons and tons of Western miniatures. With the utilitarian side, they will find themselves in possession of lots and lots…

This is an issue for me and my company.

I'm building a prototype chemical vapor deposition system in a space with strong Chinese interest and activity. I picked Prusa 3D machines over Bambu because of the potential for losing critical proprietary IP with Bambu. Can't take the chance.

Re: BambuStudio has been violating PrusaSlicer AGPL license since their fork

#150

3D printing is still very much an enthusiast, techie driver market. The degree to which Bambu has done their best to alienate that market is beyond astonishing. I really like Bambu's machines. Their quality and prices are both excellent. But they no longer have an edge feature and speed wise. I can get pretty much the same product from Creality, so why would I even entertain a user-hostile company like Bambu?

Anecdotally, I'm in the market for a new 3d printer and have been heavily considering a few Bambu models. All this drama, of which I'm not well informed on, is making me consider other vendors. Without these issues, I would have already bought a Bambu printer. Now, I'm investigating all competitors.

If you haven't already, you might want to read the twitter thread at the root of this HN discussion. It essentially postulates that all Chinese 3D Printer manufacturers are incentivised to follow in the steps of BambuLabs (being members of the state apparatus and subject to the same rules), while suffocating the competition outside of China (by benefitting from unfair advantages under the umbrella of a nationalistic development plan).
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