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Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

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Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#141

Post by westmeal »

pryce wrote: post #107
orochimaaru wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human value has rarely existed. Pre-industrial world didn't have much human value. Your were a lord or a serf. There was not much in between. A lord's life had value, a serf's value was nothing. Post-industrial world needed human capital. Hence, the need for human value. If you notice most of this "need" has arisen out of then need for industrial expansion. Post-AI will be interesting. Will we go back to pre-industri…

If my definition of 'value' was something that was totally contingent on both post-industrial society and an ultracapitalist approach to production, and it made me deduce that human being's lives over thousands of years or in other societies were worth "nothing", I think I would interpret this as a 'reductio-ad-absurdum'. That is, by deducing an absurd conclusion from the premise, that makes a strong argument that my…

Then you wouldn't like Ayn Rands novels.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#142

Post by vasco »

rounce wrote: post #119
vasco wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope the speech isn't something dumb like "remember only humans have souls" because I think that's really premature and pretty obvious that AIs are not people at this point. It really is en vogue to have this attitude that everyone in church is stupid for believing but it's a huge disservice to yourself to not understand the Vatican is full of the equivalent of the best PhDs sourced from all over the world center…

“I hope X isn’t Y” is far from the same thing as “X is Y”. Seems like you’ve put words in their mouth so you can argue against some anti-religious straw man.

If I meet someone and I tell them "I hope you're not dumb", would they assume I think they are dumb or should they take it as purely whimsical? It's also funny you got stuck on that vs on the document I shared, while dissing me for pointing it out.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#143

Post by DonHopkins »

joe_mamba wrote: post #139
DonHopkins wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

MOST games lose huge amounts of money, and the "many" games you -- without a shred of evidence -- claim DEI caused to lose hundreds of millions are overwhelmingly offset by one single game, The Sims, earning the studio many billions of dollars, continuing to this day.

And which itself inspired and gave permission and financial justification for many other inclusive games, indie to AAA, by proving there was a huge female audience for games, 14 years before Gamergate got it all wrong by attacking women while pretending it was about journalism.

So of course Gamergate didn't mean to be about The Sims, because The Sims totally undermines its claims. That's why they avoided mentioning or attacking The Sims, pretending it didn't exist and have millions of female players, and why you bristle and bluster and bullshit without evidence when I bring it up.

What receipts do you have to prove the brash claims of your Gamergate apologetics, to counter the design document receipts and first hand experience in the industry developing successful inclusive games popular with gays and girls and even boys, that I just shared?

This video essay by Alexander Avila is right on, and the comments are wonderful:

Did The Sims make you gay? - a video essay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi-HWyh0Ybk

>It's no doubt The Sims is an influential video game. In this video essay, we're going to talk about its GAY influence, particularly the role it plays in queer people's identity development. Enjoy the presentation as we go over how the Sims influenced a generation in letting them live out their Tumblr dreams...

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#144

Post by Tade0 »

overfeed wrote: post #111
xdennis wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I don't think religions should appeal to outsiders You'd have made strange bedfellows with cranky Catholics who thought so too, 60 years ago after Vatican II's modernization reforms. > You can see this with the number of members for Unitarian churches (declining) vs Amish (growing). Hold on a sec, you ought to clarify what you mean by "gain more members" - the Amish have a very high birthrate, averaging 6.1 kids pe…

> How is this old culture-wars canard still being rolled out?

I think it was dusted off when the game Mixtape received glowing reviews despite there being hardly any actual gameplay in it.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#145

Post by watwut »

psychoslave wrote: post #130
watwut wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really should stop making up history from childrens books. People were valuing people to various degrees and tool seriously the human value question in every single period we have records from. And varrying degrees apply to post-industrial too - your human value did not meant much in very much industrial third reich fans hands.

>And varrying degrees apply to post-industrial too - your human value did not meant much in very much industrial third reich fans hands. Ho, certainly they did. The scope of the ethics is then windowed on who’s deemed human, and who can be slaughtered like an animal for the glory of the great civilization one is part of. Nothing specific to nazis, look at Rwandan genocide. Hutu extremists systematically referred to T…

Nazi seen cruelty, violence and lack of empathy as manliness and virtue. Openly and specifically. You as a young man wanting to prove yourself would be beating and killing people, knowing they are humans and that violence toward humans is what made you manly in your peer group. They were not saying "it does not count". They were saying "I am great for doing it".

> The scope of the ethics is then windowed on who’s deemed human, and who can be slaughtered like an animal for the glory of the great civilization one is part of.

It was not a disagreement about who is human. Nazi did not killed just Jews and foreigners. They killed and tortured plenty of fellow Aryans, because those were their political opponents or to create fear in others. When a nazi tortured Aryan German to get names out of him, he knew full well he is torturing a human. It was not about whether they are human or not, it was simply that human life had less value.

Using animals and insects as insults does not mean there was any confusion about whether those being mistreated are humans.

> Dehumanizing "others" is the classic first step to get rid of any morale/ethical concern when interacting with them.

Actually believing they are not human is super rare and found only in some cults. Insults and degradations are how you work others to a rage, but they are not meant to be factual statements. And they are not interpreted as factual statements.

Happily, nazi left enough writing behind them, we know what they thought about human value.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#146

Post by ryandrake »

KoolKat23 wrote: post #138
ilaksh wrote: post #18

I'm an atheist, but most of what I have heard from popes in recent years seems like sound and possibly needed advice. Also, even though I feel AI and robotics are very important for progressing humanity, I think that much of the world has long since lost a proper sense of intrinsic human value. It's really gone from overt exploitation to slightly more mild exploitation where we pretend the system is really merit base…

This is a great point, further to your point on AI. Another perhaps worse offender is our focus on "the economy", at times the focus is always on "what about the economy?!" Forgetting "the economy" is merely a tool intended to improve the human condition. Sometimes I feel people lose sight of this original intention, be it unintentional or otherwise.

When Media Talking Heads say “the economy,” what they are really talking about is just rich people’s investments and old people’s retirement. Basically, for reporters, the economy = only stocks, bonds, and mutual funds.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#147

Post by ryandrake »

vasco wrote: post #110
ilaksh wrote: post #18

I'm an atheist, but most of what I have heard from popes in recent years seems like sound and possibly needed advice. Also, even though I feel AI and robotics are very important for progressing humanity, I think that much of the world has long since lost a proper sense of intrinsic human value. It's really gone from overt exploitation to slightly more mild exploitation where we pretend the system is really merit base…

> I hope the speech isn't something dumb like "remember only humans have souls" because I think that's really premature and pretty obvious that AIs are not people at this point. It really is en vogue to have this attitude that everyone in church is stupid for believing but it's a huge disservice to yourself to not understand the Vatican is full of the equivalent of the best PhDs sourced from all over the world center…

> the Vatican is full of the equivalent of the best PhDs sourced from all over the world centered around their specific topic of interest, theology.

I’m sure there are Harry Potter and Lord Of The Rings superfans who have put in a PhD level of time and research into their favorite “topic of interest” as well.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#148

Post by andrepd »

vasco wrote: post #110
ilaksh wrote: post #18

I'm an atheist, but most of what I have heard from popes in recent years seems like sound and possibly needed advice. Also, even though I feel AI and robotics are very important for progressing humanity, I think that much of the world has long since lost a proper sense of intrinsic human value. It's really gone from overt exploitation to slightly more mild exploitation where we pretend the system is really merit base…

> I hope the speech isn't something dumb like "remember only humans have souls" because I think that's really premature and pretty obvious that AIs are not people at this point. It really is en vogue to have this attitude that everyone in church is stupid for believing but it's a huge disservice to yourself to not understand the Vatican is full of the equivalent of the best PhDs sourced from all over the world center…

[dead]

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#149

Post by andrepd »

joe_mamba wrote: post #137
overfeed wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think religions should appeal to outsiders You'd have made strange bedfellows with cranky Catholics who thought so too, 60 years ago after Vatican II's modernization reforms. > You can see this with the number of members for Unitarian churches (declining) vs Amish (growing). Hold on a sec, you ought to clarify what you mean by "gain more members" - the Amish have a very high birthrate, averaging 6.1 kids pe…

[flagged]

My guy, just let it go, and find hobbies which are not watching streamers.

Re: Pope Leo XIV’s first encyclical Magnifica humanitas to be published May 25

#150

Post by bjourne »

ryandrake wrote: post #147
vasco wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope the speech isn't something dumb like "remember only humans have souls" because I think that's really premature and pretty obvious that AIs are not people at this point. It really is en vogue to have this attitude that everyone in church is stupid for believing but it's a huge disservice to yourself to not understand the Vatican is full of the equivalent of the best PhDs sourced from all over the world center…

> the Vatican is full of the equivalent of the best PhDs sourced from all over the world centered around their specific topic of interest, theology. I’m sure there are Harry Potter and Lord Of The Rings superfans who have put in a PhD level of time and research into their favorite “topic of interest” as well.

And I'm sure you have never even tried to acquire a PhD :p.
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