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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#141

Post by toast0 »

granzymes wrote: post #125
Arodex wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know why statutes of limitation exist. I was wondering why it applied here. Apparently it wasn't completely straightforward, as nine jurors were needed to reach a decision on that point, instead of a single judge or even clerk.

Whether the claim accrued before the statute of limitations expired is a question of fact, and is therefore reserved for the fact-finder which in this case was the jury.

IMHO, whether (and which) statue of limitations applies is a question of law, whether said time limit has passed is a question of fact. I'd like to read the jury instructions and verdict, but I didn't see a link to them anywhere.

I guess there could be a question of fact in a case where the statues of limitation differ for different injuries, and the factual question is which injury was it.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#142

Post by paxys »

wagwang wrote: post #51
paxys wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statute of limitations is not a "bureaucratic technicality", it is the law.

Can some lawyer explain the rationale of statute of limitations? Like why does a robber get to get away with the crime if they are able to evade the police for x number of years. Is it just because the trials suck after a while cuz no one remembers anything?

If they were evading the police then the statute of limitations would not apply, because the case would stay active the entire time.

It is instead relevant if the state decides not to charge you for a crime but comes back to you decades later and goes "we changed our mind, now you have a week to come up with a defense".

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#143

Post by eftychis »

skeptic_ai wrote: post #129
kstrauser wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there has to be some point. It's unjust to allow someone to sue 30 years later, as everyone would have a sword of Damocles hanging over their head waiting for the right moment to strike. And in general, if you didn't realize you were robbed for 3 years, perhaps it's the case that you weren't actually robbed.

So if I exchange your Rolex with a fake one and then you try to sell after 3 years and you notice it’s fake, it’s fine for you?

There is the notion of equitable estoppel, that would *perhaps*, depending on the facts, apply which stops a defendant, who for instance concealed or committed certain acts of fraud, from raising the statute of limitations defense.

Edit: to augment the sibling comment.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#144

Post by saynay »

Hikikomori wrote: post #74
Aurornis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about that, too, but it would require that all of the key individuals at OpenAI would have been willing to stay at OpenAI under his ownership. That seems unlikely to me given how divisive he is. OpenAI already had one existential leadership crisis without Musk. I doubt it would have fair better under his notoriously difficult leadership. If he had wrestled control away, I would expect an exodus of employ…

They're willing to work under the current snake, even got him back after he was removed, so why not musk?

Haven't they hemorrhaged a lot of the founding talent in the years since? Now it is full of ex-Meta ad-tech people trying to find a way to make it actually turn a profit.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#146

Post by john_builds »

granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

thanks for the snippet

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#147

Post by filoleg »

Calavar wrote: post #108
pizzafeelsright wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years returns S&P 500 (index of all those better than Musk): 261% Tesla: 2700% Disclaimer: My portfolio is 65% Tesla.

GME also beat the S&P 500 over the past 10 years. Is this evidence that Ryan Cohen is a business genius? Tesla has been a meme stock for about five years now, maybe more. Its valuation correlates with Musk's abilities as a showman and media figure, not a businessman.

> GME also beat the S&P 500 over the past 10 years. Is this evidence that Ryan Cohen is a business genius?

GME did not beat the S&P500 over the past 10 years, and it is just the evidence of you needing to verify your claims before making them.

Over the past 5 years[0]: S&P500 up by 77%, GME down by 50%.

Over the past 10 years: S&P500 up by 260%, GME up by 207%.

GME performance in the past 10 years doesn't indicate that Ryan Cohen is a business genius. It indicates that he runs a company that has been underperforming the market for at least the past decade.

0. https://www.google.com/finance/beta/quote/.INX:INDEXSP?windo...

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#148

Post by colechristensen »

qyph wrote: post #65
colechristensen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He lost on the grounds of a statue of limitations defense which is exactly the kind of thing which is easily appealable.

Are you a lawyer? IANAL but my understanding is it would be difficult for an appeal to succeed. Appeals courts only evaluate review matters of law, not of fact. Whether is has been more than the 3 year limit the statute of limitations places is a matter of fact I think. And the advisory jury makes this much harder to appeal. What do you think the grounds for appeal will be?

I'm not saying it will succeed, but what counts as having passed the statue of limitations and various workarounds and modifications of the time period particularly in cases like this where the acts in question weren't necessarily a single event but progressive activity is the kind of question which is the bread and butter of an appeals court.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#149

Post by BeetleB »

aniviacat wrote: post #128
BeetleB wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Twitters acquisition is among the worst deals in human history. That he won't have to pay for. Shareholders will, as part of the SpaceX IPO.

If shareholders have to pay the debt, then the shares will be less valuable, and Musk (whose wealth is measured in shares) will be less wealthy, no?

By a tad. SpaceX's worth is an order of magnitude more than Twitter's debt. I doubt any serious person considering buying shares in SpaceX will spend even a moment worrying about Twitter.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#150

Post by shevy-java »

Both should be fined for wasting our time with fake-troll court cases.

Basically the title of the court case was: "Is Skynet slop going to be helpful to mankind".

We all know how that story ends. Thus, fining both is warranted. When the superrich go to court, they should pay an extra fee. Like a billion per court case or so.

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