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Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

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Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#141

Post by tptacek »

abirch wrote: post #140
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like I've watched outsider-y progressives get elected into prosecutor roles and then fail their constituencies not because of ideology but over basic competency issues Huh, I went through a similar journey in New York, starting as an advocate of criminal-justice reform and then getting fed up with the incompetence. And while I wouldn't say ideological inflexibility is ideology per se , one of the contributor…

Some of the difficulties of criminal-justice reform include: you can't arrest your way out of mental illness. It's easier for society to lock up the mentally ill in with a 1-dollar bond that it is to provide the help that they need. It's probably cheaper to do give them the housing and help, but it's easier to get money for jails and jailers than it is to get money for mental health facilities.

I agree that this is a major challenge, but (for example) it has basically nothing to do with the carjacking phenomenon. I'm just saying, this stuff is complicated, and anyone with a straightforward solution is wrong.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#142

Post by plorkyeran »

dionidium wrote: post #97
tptacek wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak at length to the tenure of Kim Foxx, Chicago's former high-profile progressive prosecutor. I know some of the issues rhyme with Boudin's term, but San Franciscans can tell his story better than I can. So, first, no, I feel like I'm saying the opposite of "they're dumb". I don't think either Foxx or Boudin are dumb. I think they're both interesting people with interesting and valuable views. When I say "ba…

We almost certainly have opposing ideological views, but something I said a lot during this era (that I'm happy to see you hinting at) was that if you come into office as a progressive prosecutor without any plan to deal with the people in your office or in law enforcement who aren't on board, then that's really the more immediate failure. You can't just say, "I would have been successful if not for my detractors," b…

To some degree there simply isn't any plan you can have beyond that in the short term things will suck and hopefully the long term benefits will be worth it. If the existing incumbents are sufficiently ideologically opposed to your goals that they'll refuse to work rather than let you even inch towards them, there's not much you can do beyond try to replace them with people who don't have the relevant experience but are willing to work with you.

"Defund the police" didn't poll well so the progressive prosecutors who actually got elected were the ones who didn't admit that they were going to have to tear things down and start over (and maybe they didn't even realize it), but it was a very unsurprising outcome.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#143

Post by stickfigure »

tim333 wrote: post #82
boroboro4 wrote: post #3

This is what great reporting looks like: well-written, transparent, and rigorous. It’s sad to see how hatred toward progressives can distort people’s judgment.

Re. hatred towards progressives and the Boudin recall: >Boudin ... alleged... that the campaign was largely a Republican effort to remove him from power. Despite Boudin's claims, the recall campaign was publicly led by Democrats. 83% of donors to the campaign were from Democratic-registered voters or no-party-preference voters, with over 80% of donations coming from local San Franciscans. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wi…

From an article linked in the original article:

> In the pro-recall camp, big money makes up a much bigger slice of the pie. Over three-quarters of the total money raised ($4.76 million) has come from $50,000-plus donations, and only 4 percent has come from donations smaller than $1,000.

This doesn't give me a very charitable view of the recall donors. Democrats or not.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#144

Post by hackable_sand »

sumeno wrote: post #57
outside1234 wrote: post #30

[flagged]

It's a requirement to reach the levels they have reached. Someone with empathy would get enough money to take care of their family (maybe even for multiple generations) and then be satisfied and focus on reducing the suffering of others instead of running up the score on net worth

... no ... someone with empathy would spend time with their kids and their kids' kids, teaching them how to socialize so that they don't want to hoard wealth and be scared all the time.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#145

Post by tptacek »

plorkyeran wrote: post #142
dionidium wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We almost certainly have opposing ideological views, but something I said a lot during this era (that I'm happy to see you hinting at) was that if you come into office as a progressive prosecutor without any plan to deal with the people in your office or in law enforcement who aren't on board, then that's really the more immediate failure. You can't just say, "I would have been successful if not for my detractors," b…

To some degree there simply isn't any plan you can have beyond that in the short term things will suck and hopefully the long term benefits will be worth it. If the existing incumbents are sufficiently ideologically opposed to your goals that they'll refuse to work rather than let you even inch towards them, there's not much you can do beyond try to replace them with people who don't have the relevant experience but…

Prosecutors have no agency over police funding.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#146

Post by samtp »

rationalist wrote: post #133
samtp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If you don’t participate in politics you’re evil” is an argument that you completely made up. You don't like to be called selfish for not considering how your actions might affect others, but others are supposed to care about how their actions might affect you? Seems like a pretty self centered attitude to have.

> “If you don’t participate in politics you’re evil” is an argument that you completely made up. Incorrect. People were saying if you don't vote at all, you're supporting Trump.

Once again, I have no idea what you're responding to, but it's not arguments that people are actually making in this thread.

It creates a much better discussion if you respond to what people write rather than what you may have heard other random people say anytime over the last few years.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#147

Post by samtp »

rationalist wrote: post #134
samtp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you choose to ignore the externalities of your choices doesn't mean they no longer exist. It just means that you value your personal well being and comfort more than being informed about the results of your actions.

I never said anything about ignoring the externalities. I also never said that I was ignorant to the results of my actions. It's just not political for me. I guess I'm not surprised that this cognitive trap about politics has spread - after all, people care more about deploying any tools they can to "win", rather than being correct.

It's pretty clear your definition of politics is a lot more narrow than what almost everyone else is talking about in this thread.

And I know that you never said anything about ignoring the externalities, that's what I'm saying about you.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#148

Post by janalsncm »

tqi wrote: post #139

In the about page, this author states that they produce "original reporting and commentary on the criminal justice system and civil liberties." I really think it is a mistake to blur that line. These days it feels like you can pretty reliably predict what narrative a journalist will present on any given story based on their individual poltics. How can you reasonably expect to be viewed as an objective reporter of fac…

I used to think that it was possible to “objectively report facts” but the reality is we all have biases. Everyone needs to decide for themselves what is worth mentioning. So even if you state only 100% true facts, you can present a skewed lens on reality. This is how most propaganda works: not by spreading false facts but by selectively spreading true ones.

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#149

Post by rtgfhyuj »

tqi wrote: post #139

In the about page, this author states that they produce "original reporting and commentary on the criminal justice system and civil liberties." I really think it is a mistake to blur that line. These days it feels like you can pretty reliably predict what narrative a journalist will present on any given story based on their individual poltics. How can you reasonably expect to be viewed as an objective reporter of fac…

[flagged]

Re: Garry Tan, the CEO of YC, accused me of unethical reporting

#150

Post by phil21 »

tptacek wrote: post #130
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the second most important urban index crime after murder Can you comment on why this is? Is it because it's common? Or so visibly impactful?

Carjacking is a subset of motor vehicle theft, which is an index crime, but carjacking commands more public attention than anything except for murder; this is a vibes-based assertion but I feel like I could back it up easily. Importantly: the carjacking wave wasn't Foxx's fault (it was in fact Kia's fault). She was in an incredibly tough position --- she also had to deal with Chicagoland police departments that have…

How is carjacking Kia’s fault? Kia had a problem with immobilizer anti-theft devices not being installed plus a well documented trivial way to “Hotwire” certain models. This would simply be car theft. It was a well documented (via social media) technique that lowered the skill level needed to steal a car to basically the ability to sit through a 30s TikTok.

Is it that it’s a “gateway crime” to full on carjacking? You get away with a few joy rides in a Kia and get bold enough to do an armed carjacking of someone’s SUV while they load their kids up in the alley garage?

Carjacking is up there with murder for “scary” urban crime because it’s violent and anyone can imagine being a victim. Having your car stolen off the street overnight doesn’t really elicit the same visceral response.

Add in the CPDs general “no chase” policy (mostly a good thing for harm reduction) plus a bunch of largely juveniles posting on social media the dangerous driving stunts they were pulling on social media to really amp up the fear and outrage. Even if it were mostly for show, no prosecutor is going to survive an election if they come across as soft on that style of crime.

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