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Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

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Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#141

Post by graemep »

KPGv2 wrote: post #85
graemep wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many kids do you have that you need two SUVs to carry them all? its not common.

I'm willing to bet they didn't mean to carry kids that don't fit in two SUVs. Probably meant that logistically, they need two SUVs available. If you aren't American—or are, but don't have kids—you might not be aware that even two kids past 10yo and a sedan is a pretty bad experience. And I'm saying this as someone who loves his sedan, hates large cars, passionately hates SUVs, and definitely never wanted one. I have…

> If you aren't American

I am not American, and I have had two kids (now adults) and had a hatchback for many of those years. No problem fitting everything in. Split folding seats help a lot.

The biggest car I have had is probably a Citreon Xsara Picasso (small by American standards, I think), and that only for about three years. It was nice to have the space but not essential.

I can imagine needing two cars, and some people I know do, but more than two in all (say one big, one small, and not small by American standards) is rare.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#142

Post by deltoidmaximus »

pbmonster wrote: post #125
everfrustrated wrote: post #111

My main takeaway from the video is just how terrible Toyota was at marketing this.

I mean, does it really matter? The Prius (and all subsequent Synergy Drive cars) were widely known - from the very beginning - to be extremely fuel efficient ICE cars. As time went on, they universally became known to be both fuel efficient and also absolutely bomb proof. Both of those things surprised basically no-one, since the direct successors (Camry, Corolla, 4Runner, Tacoma, Hilux) were also already known for b…

It does to me. I was operating under the misconception that hybrids combined the meant more parts and more maintenance. I said this out loud as a complaint many times in discussions about them and everyone let it drop or conceded the point. Reading this thread it appears I was ignorant that it was more hybrid than I imagined.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#143

Post by everfrustrated »

deltoidmaximus wrote: post #142
pbmonster wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, does it really matter? The Prius (and all subsequent Synergy Drive cars) were widely known - from the very beginning - to be extremely fuel efficient ICE cars. As time went on, they universally became known to be both fuel efficient and also absolutely bomb proof. Both of those things surprised basically no-one, since the direct successors (Camry, Corolla, 4Runner, Tacoma, Hilux) were also already known for b…

It does to me. I was operating under the misconception that hybrids combined the meant more parts and more maintenance. I said this out loud as a complaint many times in discussions about them and everyone let it drop or conceded the point. Reading this thread it appears I was ignorant that it was more hybrid than I imagined.

Ditto. I also actively avoided hybrids as being worst of both worlds.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#144

Post by globular-toast »

kube-system wrote: post #79
globular-toast wrote: post #65

I understood after I watched the brilliant Weber Auto video on it, published 5 years ago[0]. I liked it so much I "gently" encouraged my partner to get a Yaris hybrid, which gets about 69mpg average. It's not unusual to see 80+ on individual trips. She was a little sceptical about having an auto at first, because us Europeans still think it's 1980 and that manuals are superior, but she came around after a few minutes…

The Sienna is considerably larger than a Golf. It seats 7 or 8 depending on configuration. Also remember we use different 20% smaller gallons than you do in Europe. 34 miles per US gallon is about 41 miles per imperial gallon. https://www.carsized.com/en-us/cars/compare/volkswagen-golf-... In the same US tests with US spec vehicles, the Sienna actually achieves considerably better fuel economy. Quite impressive given…

> Also remember we use different 20% smaller gallons than you do in Europe. 34 miles per US gallon is about 41 miles per imperial gallon.

Ohhhh... That would be it then. Yeah, that's very impressive. I definitely feel like these super-efficient petrols are the sweet spot right now.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#145

Post by globular-toast »

avgDev wrote: post #103
graemep wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many kids do you have that you need two SUVs to carry them all? its not common.

I have 1 child and need a big car, such as Honda Pilot. We are active. We travel. My son plays sports. I need a 2 inch hitch for our heavy ebikes. I also need 5k towing a few times a year. I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.

You don't need any of that, obviously. It really is best to save that word and you'll better appreciate that you can have things way, way beyond what you need rather than living in this eternal state of "barely getting by". It's all in your head. It's completely up to you if you want to be rich today.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#146

Post by avgDev »

globular-toast wrote: post #145
avgDev wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1 child and need a big car, such as Honda Pilot. We are active. We travel. My son plays sports. I need a 2 inch hitch for our heavy ebikes. I also need 5k towing a few times a year. I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.

You don't need any of that, obviously. It really is best to save that word and you'll better appreciate that you can have things way, way beyond what you need rather than living in this eternal state of "barely getting by". It's all in your head. It's completely up to you if you want to be rich today.

You also don't need a computer, and here you are? It is completely up to you if you want to be rich today?

What kind of comment is this?

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#147

Post by globular-toast »

avgDev wrote: post #146
globular-toast wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need any of that, obviously. It really is best to save that word and you'll better appreciate that you can have things way, way beyond what you need rather than living in this eternal state of "barely getting by". It's all in your head. It's completely up to you if you want to be rich today.

You also don't need a computer, and here you are? It is completely up to you if you want to be rich today? What kind of comment is this?

You're right, I'm rich too.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#148

Post by matthewdgreen »

margalabargala wrote: post #112
luplex wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a heat pump for heating is then really important, as compared to a simple resistive heating element

Heat pumps work up to a certain temperature delta. They don't heat so good in -40.

The number of cars that experience -40F(C) in a year is something like 3% of all cars. In the US that number is more like 0.5%. And even within that 3%, the average number of days where cars experience that temperature is on the order of a 3-6 at most. We spend a lot of time worrying about edge cases.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#149

Post by krosaen »

The CEO of Toyota Research Institute, Gill Pratt, had some good (albeit self-serving) points about the benefits of hybrids and PEVs to complement EVS a few years back that I bookmarked and keep coming back to:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210727090309/https://medium.co...

https://web.archive.org/web/20210825054702/https://medium.co...

> Maximizing the benefit of every battery cell produced requires that we distribute them smartly.

> This means putting them into a greater number of “right sized” electrified vehicles, including HEVs and PHEVs, instead of placing them all into a fewer number of long-range BEVs, like my model X. This is particularly important because presently it is difficult to recycle the kinds of batteries used in BEVs. If we are to achieve carbon neutrality, we must pay attention to all parts of the “3R” process — Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.

> For example, we hardly ever put gas into our RAV4 Prime PHEV, which has a battery ⅙ as large as our Model X BEV. For the same investment in batteries as our single Model X, five other RAV4 Prime customers could reduce their carbon footprint too.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#150

Post by seanmcdirmid »

MegaDeKay wrote: post #135
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at -40C you need to start plugging a block warmer into the ICE when you park, something that an EV doesn’t need, although it can benefit from the same plug for the block warmer into Fairbanks parking lots.

Yep, I know all about block heaters. But that's a separate issue from range.

It says a lot about the viability of ICEs in really cold temperatures though. You are just trading one problem for another. An EV can be kept plugged in while idle and the cold weather tech can probably manage better than an ICE would, especially with what the Chinese have been developing in Harbin and Mohe.
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