Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent • Hacker News Board

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#141

Post by mystraline » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:26 PM UTC

pickleRick243 wrote: post #120

RIMR wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral acceptance of petty theft always increases with inequality. When the poor take from the rich, people don't care as much. The poorer the thief and the richer the victim, the less people care. Go far enough, and people view the thief as a Robin Hood-style hero. Given that we're at a point in American history where inequality is quite extreme, I don't think it's fair to compare shoplifting to the corruption of the…

What? It's a moral failure to have an issue with people shoplifting from Walgreens? Do you think they're stealing milk, eggs, and bread?

And your types are the same that would see a cashier who steals $100 go to jail....

But a manager who edits timecards of 10 people for $100 ($1000 damage) is just a civil matter.

Crime, and who punishes it, has always been a political matter. The crimes have never been equal for those with power other others.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#142

Post by girvo » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:26 PM UTC

tdb7893 wrote: post #117

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Combined with the increasing acceptance of shoplifting [1] and unprecedented corruption and criminality among our national leaders, it's hard not to read this as a moral page turning on American culture. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/04/hasan-piker-jia-to...

I've known a lot of people who justify crimes like shoplifting by the fact that these corporations have stolen from them (and not in some abstract way, often literal wage theft) and felt like the social contract was already broken. And it's not like the leaders at the large corporations I've worked at generally seem to care about their employees or customers (I would describe most places I worked at as, at best, amor…

Literal wage theft is rampant, so yeah in some ways I understand why people would feel that way.

I’m still mad about a company I worked at over 12 years ago who stole from me and never paid my Super.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#143

Post by girvo » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:27 PM UTC

bad_username wrote: post #138

tdb7893 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known a lot of people who justify crimes like shoplifting by the fact that these corporations have stolen from them (and not in some abstract way, often literal wage theft) and felt like the social contract was already broken. And it's not like the leaders at the large corporations I've worked at generally seem to care about their employees or customers (I would describe most places I worked at as, at best, amor…

Justifying one's crime because other crime exists - isnot a winning position long term.

Corporations don’t follow or care about morals, and so their customers and workers begin to follow suit.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#144

Post by throwup238 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:28 PM UTC

osculum wrote: post #112

throwup238 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just the propaganda they sell during college visits. When I was at Caltech the honor code didn’t inspire any pride, because the only way anyone got through that course load was by “cheating”*. No one had any time for pride (GO BEAVERS!) An honor code is an admission that your curriculum is so sadistic, not even cheating will help. Princeton just isn’t prestigious enough to keep up that charade. * At Caltech th…

Im surprised to hear that. I went to Caltech for my postgrad and never collaborated on an test, and it would have never ocurre me to do so (and no, the professor didn’t have to explicitly say they collaboration was not allowed. It was just the standard honor code). We all suspected of people that didn’t adhere to the honor code and it was frowned upon, and they could have faced repercussions if anyone had reported th…

I did ChemE for undergrad and aerospace focused on systems engineering for postgrad so that colored my experience a bit. The former was brutal and the latter naturally collaborative with a bunch of projects, so we all worked together.

The postgrad continuum mechanics class (I think taught by the geophysics department?) was the biggest exception so I’m betting there’s quite a bit of variance among fields.

I don’t doubt there’s academic fraud (living in the dorm my first year wiped away any illusion) but within my major it didn’t end well.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#145

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:28 PM UTC

So now I finally understand why Americans use the expression "proctored exams". Because not all exams are proctored.

Here in Spain, we don't have an equivalent expression because there is no such thing as an unproctored exam. The idea of being proctored is already included in the word "exam".

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#146

Post by gavinsyancey » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:28 PM UTC

twoWhlsGud wrote: post #44

john_strinlai wrote: post #5

huh, i had no idea princeton specifically disallowed proctors, and instead relied on an honor system. seems... like a poorly thought out system, especially given: " 29.9 percent of respondents reported that they had cheated on an assignment or exam during their time at Princeton. 44.6 percent of senior respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report. " crazier is the people prote…

As someone who went there (albeit many decades ago) I can tell you FWIW when I was there folks took it seriously. I literally knew of no one who ever cheated on an exam. And I'm pretty sure that anyone I knew who observed cheating would have taken it seriously enough to bring it to the process. It was pretty much a fixture of how students thought about things. So it worked (near as I could tell) back then. But instit…

Which is bad, someone who cheats on a test or someone who rats out their friend for cheating on a test?

It really is a cultural thing, and that sort of culture is primarily passed down from upperclassmen to underclassmen. I went to a different college with an honor code (Harvey Mudd) and when I graduated in 2019 it was still doing relatively well, but from what I've heard COVID really killed students caring about / adhering to the honor code.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#147

Post by sudosteph » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:28 PM UTC

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #87

shadowtree wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral code is downstream from culture and not every culture sees cheating as a moral failing. As Princeton's demo skewed hard into a more international student body, the underlying cultural assumptions have shifted. The Christian extension of the Ninth Commandment from not bearing false witness to a blanket ban on lying is unique. Islam has explicit exceptions through Taqiyya, Hinduism gets nuanced with dharma and ad…

It is rather disappointing to see a take as unsubtle as "white people are pure and honest God-fearing Christians and Asians are dirty heathens with no concept of morality" on this site.

Nobody said that. Yes, Princeton was founded by Presbyterians and that was a huge influence on ethical norms there. But most of the white people at Princeton aren't Calvinists either, and any that are would tell you that literally nobody is pure and honest.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#148

Post by bdangubic » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:29 PM UTC

galleywest200 wrote: post #61

bdangubic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a unique pride in being part of a community built around honor. It has been 100(s) of years since community like this existed, now this is utopia

I definitely still see honor system pay boxes in the USA. Maybe not in big cities, but outside of them. Disc golf courses, fire wood piles, that day’s chicken eggs in a wooden box on the side of the road.

I came to this country as an immigrant and one of the first memories I have was walking to the gas station to get the Sunday paper for my host father. I remember opening up the door and seeing tens of Sunday papers and was taken aback thinking how can this be, wouldn't someone just put in a quarter and take ALL of the Sunday papers home with her/him. In today's society (and especially if we are talking Princeton-like places) I do not believe honor-anything "works" anymore and am wondering just how small a place needs to be where this exists today...

just as a small recent-ish example, I live in a white-collar affluent area and this Halloween we took our daughter to her friend's neighborhood but left a dish full of candy outside with a sign to take a couple. we have a camera outside and the very first "group" of 3 kids (with two adults) that came took all of the candy that was there...

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#149

Post by pixl97 » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:29 PM UTC

nlawalker wrote: post #100

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in some left-wing corners of the commentariat, is out; flagrant disregard of the social contract is in. Interesting that this is posed as the American left disregarding the social contract. I think you could make a pretty good case that the American right disregarded the social contract first in electing an extremely destructive pedophile who starts wars for reasons that can't even be articulated, pardons war crimi…

>Interesting that this is posed as the American left disregarding the social contract. Yeah no kidding, where's the commentary on the "right-wing corners" that are rolling coal, "owning the libs", storming the Capitol, denying vaccine science and refusing to wear masks during a pandemic etc., and the consideration of whether this posture is a frustrated response to that.

Also the right wing love to ignore every single bit of their own crimes.

It's like the idea that those that voted for Trump have never committed misdemeanors cannot even be discussed, when the actual crime statistics show that yea, they are just as apt to load up the steaks and walk out of the store.

But I will say they've done a damned good job controlling the conversation so it's not brought up in the first place.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#150

Post by girvo » Wed, May 13, 2026, 9:30 PM UTC

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #87

shadowtree wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral code is downstream from culture and not every culture sees cheating as a moral failing. As Princeton's demo skewed hard into a more international student body, the underlying cultural assumptions have shifted. The Christian extension of the Ninth Commandment from not bearing false witness to a blanket ban on lying is unique. Islam has explicit exceptions through Taqiyya, Hinduism gets nuanced with dharma and ad…

It is rather disappointing to see a take as unsubtle as "white people are pure and honest God-fearing Christians and Asians are dirty heathens with no concept of morality" on this site.

It’s more commonly posted here these days, but this has always been on this site. Just usually couched “better”