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50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

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141–150 of 164 posts

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#141
post #82

There are two simultaneous problems that I've come to understand with datacenters and the people that live in their proximity: 1. Somehow the public is always left holding the bag for increased transmission costs despite the cause of the increase being a single (or short list) of outliers. 2. The residential public, as is tradition, is always asked to scale down for industrial demand. How can we imagine expanding a s…

This is the same issue for water in California as well. Growing water thirsty crops in a desert to use an allocation while average people are asked to conserve.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love for us to get away from this trope of ever-increasing umbrella categories that you are discouraged from criticizing if you participate in it, very commonly marked by usage of the term "funny"/"hilarious" to imply hypocrisy. The world is big and complicated. "AI" is the biggest umbrella category we have ever seen in modern civilization. There's nothing inherently wrong with criticizing AI while using AI. Ther…

Agree and it has applied to pretty much everything for a long time. It's why when I bitch about the UK, I get told if I don't like it why don't I leave. It's like my dudes fail to grasp to concept of loving something and wanting it to be even better, to solve minor quibbles with it.

Sometimes I think the world would be a much better place if people consciously realized the human psyche made the "Availability" choice in terms of CAP theorem.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#143
post #7

It's weird to read an article about how AI is ruining Lake Tahoe, with a map illustrating the problem, when the map itself has the world's most generic "100% generated by Claude" UI ever. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the article using the Claude map. It's just deeply funny somehow.

I'd love for us to get away from this trope of ever-increasing umbrella categories that you are discouraged from criticizing if you participate in it, very commonly marked by usage of the term "funny"/"hilarious" to imply hypocrisy. The world is big and complicated. "AI" is the biggest umbrella category we have ever seen in modern civilization. There's nothing inherently wrong with criticizing AI while using AI. Ther…

Bravo, everybody should read this.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#145
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's people that do that, not capitalism. This happens in every system that has existed in human history.

Absolutely not. The default economic system is anarchy, also known as sharing and mutual aid. You see this even in the reddest of US states, where disaster victims help each other, and a huge pastime is sharing food via potlucks. But all evidence points to anarchical/egalitarian cultures as the baseline mechanism of human organization from prehistory. Externalities don't exist in anarchic systems, because there is no…

[deleted]

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#146
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's people that do that, not capitalism. This happens in every system that has existed in human history.

Absolutely not. The default economic system is anarchy, also known as sharing and mutual aid. You see this even in the reddest of US states, where disaster victims help each other, and a huge pastime is sharing food via potlucks. But all evidence points to anarchical/egalitarian cultures as the baseline mechanism of human organization from prehistory. Externalities don't exist in anarchic systems, because there is no…

The far left tends to treat humans as essentially good and plastic — corrupted by unjust systems, but redeemable once those systems are dismantled. Remove capitalism, hierarchy, scarcity, and people will naturally cooperate. The far right tends toward a Hobbesian view — humans are greedy and lazy by default. Without the discipline, consequences, and hierarchy, civilization unravels. Hence “if you tax people more they’ll stop working.”

Both are cartoon versions of something real, and both fail in predictable ways. The more honest picture comes from behavioral economics and evolutionary psychology: humans are neither blank slates nor rational maximizers. We’re a messy bundle of cooperative instincts and tribal ones, capable of extraordinary generosity within in-groups and breathtaking cruelty toward out-groups. Our “goodness” has always been conditional and contextual.

What really undermines the anarchist vision specifically isn’t that people are evil — it’s that they’re biased and self-deceiving in systematic ways. There’s a well-replicated finding that when you ask members of a team to estimate their individual contribution to a group outcome, the percentages sum to well over 100%. Everyone genuinely believes they pulled more than their weight. This isn’t malice — it’s a predictable artifact of how memory and attention work. We have more access to our own effort than to others’, so we weight it more heavily.

The practical consequence of this is underappreciated: it means that even in a community of genuinely well-meaning people with no bad actors, you’ll still get persistent grievance and conflict, because everyone will sincerely believe they’re being shortchanged. This isn’t a solvable problem with better norms or more transparency — it’s baked into human cognition.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#147
post #7

It's weird to read an article about how AI is ruining Lake Tahoe, with a map illustrating the problem, when the map itself has the world's most generic "100% generated by Claude" UI ever. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the article using the Claude map. It's just deeply funny somehow.

My read is People complain about AI in public, use it heavily in private, complain about datacenters in public, slam their fists about usage limits in private. In short, typical human behavior, want to have their cake and eat it too.

This is such a bizarre image to conjure. It's so extremely self-satisfying for your position - why even go this far?

"Heavily"? "Complain"? "Slam their fists"? "Want to have their cake and eat it too?"

All in the service of describing how you assume your enemies are. This is beyond the pale for HN. Really petty.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#148
post #97
post #82

There are two simultaneous problems that I've come to understand with datacenters and the people that live in their proximity: 1. Somehow the public is always left holding the bag for increased transmission costs despite the cause of the increase being a single (or short list) of outliers. 2. The residential public, as is tradition, is always asked to scale down for industrial demand. How can we imagine expanding a s…

Transferring wealth from the young and poor to the old and wealthy is the entire purpose of our government. This is now the endpoint we are bouldering towards: the bottom 90% increasingly have nothing left to steal or exploit. And just like an algal bloom that eventually runs out of oxygen and dies, this is where this system and our society unravels.

> the old and wealthy

The government will throw them under the bus in a heartbeat to keep power.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#149
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transferring wealth from the young and poor to the old and wealthy is the entire purpose of our government. This is now the endpoint we are bouldering towards: the bottom 90% increasingly have nothing left to steal or exploit. And just like an algal bloom that eventually runs out of oxygen and dies, this is where this system and our society unravels.

> the old and wealthy The government will throw them under the bus in a heartbeat to keep power.

The government would, except that they tend to vote in much greater numbers than other groups, so keeping them happy is important to stay in power.

Re: 50K Tahoe residents need power as utility eyes redirecting lines to data centers

#150
post #140
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... we are specifically transferring it from the young. This is happening across the west. Once birth control was created, we kicked off a ticking time bomb of a crisis by not actually changing our social safety nets, with fewer young people paying to support an much larger number of older folks. At the same time, our entire housing shortage is designed to enrich the homeowners by protecting the value of their prop…

> fewer young people paying to support an much larger number of older folks The largest generation by population in the US is Millenials, second largest in Gen Z. https://www.populationpyramids.org/generations/united-states

It's very obviously not the total number of people that matters. It's the difference in the number of people being funded and doing the funding. The math is fairly straightforward:

# of Boomers - Greatest Gen > Millennials - Boomers

This means that Millennials will have a greater burden than Boomers did. Which means Millennials will live with fewer resources.

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