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Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

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Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#141

Post by sailfast »

mothballed wrote: post #39
timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

This is not a comment on gun rights, but, IF you are having issues with suicide and depression I would absolutely remove those weapons from your house and access. Talk to a friend you trust. Have them stored. Something. Having them nearby is only going to increase the odds you end up dead.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#142

Post by wat10000 »

hirvi74 wrote: post #131
throw0101c wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

It is interesting because while the hotline might help some, it can also do significant damage to others depending on what happens after the phone call. Of course, nothing in life is every 100% good for everyone or every situation. While not everyone that calls the hotline is involuntarily committed, I wonder how the data matches up with this finding [1]: > "In this meta-analysis of 100 studies of 183 patient samples…

Are they accounting for the fact that people who are admitted with suicidal thoughts will tend to be those much more prone to suicide in the first place? It seems obvious, but it doesn't sound like they are.

People who come home from the hospital after being admitted for cancer treatment will have a much higher cancer death rate than the general population, but that doesn't imply that hospital treatment is damaging.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#143

Post by voxic11 »

timcobb wrote: post #138
some_random wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't believe in incremental progress anymore, either it works 100% of the time and solves everything forever or it's a failure and you probably wanted it to fail because you're evil.

No I believe that what you have with the 11 percent decrease is reflective of diversity among people and what causes crisis. Suicide hotlines work for some people in some cases, that is undeniable. But it's not incremental in that you're not going to then iterate on the hotline and make it more effective and one day we've got 20% and so on. That won't be the case because the hotline is just not appealing for many peo…

Are you under the impression that hotlines are the only intervention that is being explored?

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#144

Post by timcobb »

wat10000 wrote: post #139
timcobb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category. For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide di…

An 11% drop isn't "something works for somebody," it's "it works for a lot of people, substantially more people than it harms, making for a clear net gain." In individual with odd habits is a completely different thing. That comparison is utterly inapt. If you had an entire population that started running the AC at 60 degrees and eating ice cubes all day, and cognition measurably increased by 11%, that would be incre…

To be clear I'm not saying it's not a net gain. It's very clearly a net gain.

But, just because it works doesn't mean it's not a capitalism solution using the capitalism hammer of talking to random people behind a phone (which, again, might be a net good thing for some people crisis).

So again, I am not against anti-suicide hotlines. I am sincerely happy they help many people. I just think they are very symbolically representative of our capitalist alienated world where everything, down to our very drive to exist, has a corporate CYA hedge hotline.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#145

Post by baigy »

timcobb wrote: post #32

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, c…

Learnt a new word today: suicidality. Sounds like physicality, but with deadly consequences.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#146

Post by BobaFloutist »

hirvi74 wrote: post #131
throw0101c wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

It is interesting because while the hotline might help some, it can also do significant damage to others depending on what happens after the phone call. Of course, nothing in life is every 100% good for everyone or every situation. While not everyone that calls the hotline is involuntarily committed, I wonder how the data matches up with this finding [1]: > "In this meta-analysis of 100 studies of 183 patient samples…

I mean, yeah. Of course. You don't get involuntarily committed if you're not at high risk. What?

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#147

Post by timcobb »

voxic11 wrote: post #143
timcobb wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I believe that what you have with the 11 percent decrease is reflective of diversity among people and what causes crisis. Suicide hotlines work for some people in some cases, that is undeniable. But it's not incremental in that you're not going to then iterate on the hotline and make it more effective and one day we've got 20% and so on. That won't be the case because the hotline is just not appealing for many peo…

Are you under the impression that hotlines are the only intervention that is being explored?

No.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#148

Post by timcobb »

yladiz wrote: post #127
timcobb wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the hell is capitalist about it? The rest, everything else. It's darkly amusing to me we don't get healthcare here in the US but we do get suicide hotlines. EDIT: wouldn't be surprised if Trump defunded/privatized suicide hotlines using companies run by the Trump Org.

> The rest, everything else. What are you specifically talking about? What is “everything else”?

Existence, where you're just thrown out there to sink or swim and that's thats. If you're lucky you have parents and/or friends who can help you. If you're not, well... good luck!

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#149

Post by timcobb »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #134
yladiz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest, everything else. What are you specifically talking about? What is “everything else”?

Why are you continuing to argue with someone who from their second response or third response in the thead - is at best disingenuous?

Brutal that you would think I am being disingenuous based on my responses. Sad for me genuinely.

Re: Dutch suicide prevention website shares data with tech companies without consent

#150

Post by redsocksfan45 »

giantg2 wrote: post #121
sailfast wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost. I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing? Ca…

"sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?" There seem to be many things that we could do, like addressing suicide as a social contagion including in media portrayal, providing better substance abuse and mental health treatment options, etc. A hotline is like a bandaid - its not going to fix the underlying societal issues like disconnection, lack of community, lack of opportunity/hope, social m…

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