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Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

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Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#141

Post by blueg3 »

Velocifyer wrote: post #111
bramhaag wrote: post #8

The requirements for the mobile devices are listed here: https://support.google.com/recaptcha/answer/16609652 So it seems that you will need a modern Android device with Google Play Services installed or a modern iPhone/iPad to be allowed to browse the web in the future. No mention of device integrity verification yet, but the writing is on the wall.

I will be unable to solve the phone verification because I use LineageOS for microG, but any fraudster can just buy a bunch of $30 android phones. Many people have trouble using a smartphone, so they use dumbphones, but they will be locked out. Many people just don't have any mobile phone because they don't think that it is useful.

Google is mostly interested in abuse that happens beyond the scale of how many $30 phones you can buy.

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#142

Post by andrepd »

semiquaver wrote: post #101
observationist wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means you're a peasant, and don't matter. Don't worry, they'll work with telecoms and carriers to ensure devices matching your budget are subsidized and made available at every possible opportunity.

I expected mostly snark from my earnest question, And got it. Ok, concrete scenario. What about homeless people using the computer at the library? Im pretty sure Google wouldn’t intentionally cut marginalized people like this off from the entire internet, would they? Please don’t respond with sarcasm.

> Im pretty sure Google wouldn’t intentionally cut marginalized people like this off from the entire internet, would they? Please don’t respond with sarcasm.

Honestly, if you ask such terminally naive questions don't be surprised to get sarcasm in reply. Google does cut off access to chunks of people if it deems it profitable to do so!

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#143

Post by crazygringo »

bramhaag wrote: post #8

The requirements for the mobile devices are listed here: https://support.google.com/recaptcha/answer/16609652 So it seems that you will need a modern Android device with Google Play Services installed or a modern iPhone/iPad to be allowed to browse the web in the future. No mention of device integrity verification yet, but the writing is on the wall.

Do you have an alternate solution? When we hear so many stories from HN'ers of their websites being hammered by out-of-control crawling and fetching and new levels of AI slop spam?

This is something site owners choose to implement or not. They're the ones paying the extra hosting fees to handle potentially unwanted traffic, and dealing with spam that traditional CAPTCHA's are no longer effective against. Google's not forcing this on anyone else.

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#144

Post by sieabahlpark »

Gander5739 wrote: post #129
snailmailman wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m already sick and tired of seeing cloudflares “making sure you aren’t a bot” checkbox everywhere. Sometimes it locks me out entirely and decides I don’t get to view pages. I see recaptcha less frequently but it’s much more annoying, with all the clicking of crosswalks, or busses, or whatever. I am not looking forward to a web where google can not only lock me out of my email, but also large sections of the previou…

But what's the alternative? Sites need a way to prevent bots overwhelming them, and there's no perfect way to distinguish real users from bots.

[dead]

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#146

Post by kajman »

otterley wrote: post #119
kajman wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-trust. They're selling part of the problem (inference via Gemini) and now they're selling a solution. They also dominate web standards by developing the dominant browser. And they control one of two dominant phone platforms that will collaborate to enable this solution. If this were some smaller company that just did cloud then it'd never even make it to PoC. This can only happen because it's Google Cloud, and t…

The FCC doesn't enforce antitrust law. That's the FTC. (The FTC is also the commission that Lina Khan chaired for a while.)

Oops, Yes. I got 2/3 of the letters correct, though. I think that might be a better rate of success than their court cases during those years.

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#147

Post by codedokode »

Wow. So you will need a mobile device in future to browse the web, and Google will use mobile device identifier to de-anonymize you. And I assume they also carefully designed this to make life little harder for alternative search engines, their competitors. And probably they will not provide collected user data to competing advertising platforms to make them less competitive as well.

Also the example is ridiculous, that you need to scan a QR code to place an order. Maybe they should require filing a visa application as well.

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#148

Post by codedokode »

xp84 wrote: post #131
gonzalohm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't like contactless technology or what? I don't think that scanning a QR code is significantly more involved but it's enough to be annoying

I think partly because Google and Apple controlled the contactless bits of the phones for many years, the non-OS-makers like WeChat and AliPay made use of the open technology of QR codes. I think theoretically you could build equivalent things as they have with NFC today on those platforms but on the other hand being able to set up a “POS” with nothing more than a printer does have an appeal to it, even if writable n…

In Russia they tried to use bluetooth after being sanctioned from using NFC.

Re: Google Cloud fraud defense, the next evolution of reCAPTCHA

#149

Post by whatsupdog »

bramhaag wrote: post #132
semiquaver wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expected mostly snark from my earnest question, And got it. Ok, concrete scenario. What about homeless people using the computer at the library? Im pretty sure Google wouldn’t intentionally cut marginalized people like this off from the entire internet, would they? Please don’t respond with sarcasm.

> Im pretty sure Google wouldn’t intentionally cut marginalized people like this off from the entire internet, would they? Why wouldn't they? Google is notorious for making marginalized people's lives harder if it can make them money. Some examples: - Hosting Palantir's ImmigrationOS, used by ICE to track immigrants - Actively removing tools marginalized people use to protect themselves against ICE, such as ICE-track…

Illegal immigrants =/= marginalized people
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