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Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

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141–150 of 162 posts

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#141
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naked singletons in your locality.

Alright, who's been messing with the universal gravitational constant and making it not universal? No one's in trouble, I just want to know.

There's another tantalizing possibility, that it varies over time rather than across space.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple independent observations pointing toward dark matter: 1. Galaxy rotation curves. 2. Galaxy cluster mass measurements from gravitational lenses and infrared. 3. Cosmic Microwave Background models (mass measurements from inhomogeneities that correspond to acoustic waves, for eg). MOND only explains 1. Dark matter accounts for all 3. Only catch is that it hasnt been directly observed.

> Only catch is that it hasnt been directly observed. Ok, so... why do people take it seriously as a concept? Occam's razor would point towards some general misunderstanding on which we have no evidence to reasonably speculate a cause.

A "general misunderstanding" isn't really a theory whose complexity you can compare to the Dark Matter theory.

One could also argue that on the one hand you need just one concept (dark matter) to explain three phenomena (galaxy rotation curves, gravitational lensing, CMBR), and the "general misunderstanding" might need to have three aspects to make it explain all three things, making it more complex.

Occam's razor is a good guiding principle, but in some cases, it's really hard to compare the complexity of competing theories. My favorite example of this is the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. In some sense, it's really simple, the wave function just follows the Schrödinger equation. In another sense, it implicitly postulates the existence of many parallel worlds, which you can count as a quasi-infinite complexity penalty, or you can shrug and say it's not a big deal, the theory says the parallel worlds aren't observable, so there is nothing wrong with postulating them. There's no objective way to decide that.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#143
post #2

If you follow Sabine Hossenfelder's channel, she has a MONDOmeter. With MOND (modified Newtonian gravity) on one side and dark matter on the other side. As new papers come out the needle goes back and forth, and I guess that she will make a new video if she hasn't already, with the needle moving one step towards dark matter. I find it interesting how it doesn't seem to settle. Dark matter is still the favorite, but t…

Dark Matter : supposedly makes up a big amount of the mass of the universe, but cant be seen, does not emit, absorb, or reflect light. Also it can 'pass through' other normal matter, and other dark matter. It's basically magic aka not actually real, just something in vogue to pretend is real at the present moment.

> cant be seen, does not emit, absorb, or reflect light. Also it can 'pass through' other normal matter, and other dark matter

Why do you say that like it's obviously ridicule or impossible? Neutrinos do exist and they fit all these criteria. We just know they're not dark matter (or at least not all of it) because they're not heavy enough (and some other things).

Don't try to rely on intuition when thinking about particles, there's no reason for evolution to make what happens at quantum scale or relativistic scale intuitive to us.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#144
post #18
post #2

If you follow Sabine Hossenfelder's channel, she has a MONDOmeter. With MOND (modified Newtonian gravity) on one side and dark matter on the other side. As new papers come out the needle goes back and forth, and I guess that she will make a new video if she hasn't already, with the needle moving one step towards dark matter. I find it interesting how it doesn't seem to settle. Dark matter is still the favorite, but t…

It's funny how for MOND we cant accept that it has some unknowns yet but we are more than willing to accept the FULL UNKNOWN Dark Matter. it's easy. put "Dark" in front of something and you don't have to explain it at all, no matter that something else explains at least 60-70% instead of 0.

Because MOND doesn't actually explain anything, it's basically just fine tuning equations to make them fit with observations. Dark matter is the opposite, it takes all the observations and induces a fitting explanation

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel compelled to point out that (a)ether was the simplest answer until we confirmed that space is a vacuum and that light can travel in the absence of a medium.

aether was not the simplest explanation since it was disproved by Michelson-Morley experiment. Nothing as of now yet has disproved Dark matter as thoroughly.

The two were dealt with very differently.

Aether: observations show lack of aether so we update the theory that makes aether unnecessary.

Dark matter: observations show lack of observable matter so we keep hunting for decades locating it. The aether analogue would have been to continue to look for dark aether. Dark matter is more like god of gaps. We can 'darkify' any theory that does not fit empirical evidence.

It's hard to tell now which leans more towards the more correct theory.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#147
We measure the matter distribution by its affect on light (strong/weak lensing). We also measure the matter distribution by the amount of light coming from it. The results are not the same. The simplest explanation is that there is matter which does not produce or reflect light via e/m, i.e. it is dark. Dark Matter. We know of particles which behave the same way. Neutrinos for example.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#148
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it had failed it would've been a top science news. Every scientist dreams about the day when they're mentioned as "(...)'s experiment puts Newton's law of gravity in jeopardy."

Would it? Or would it be treated as an errant experiment by either the journal or the experimentalists themselves, foregoing publishing until they had a result that was better aligned with established norms? Rightly or wrongly, I expect that stakeholders would tend to invoke Sagan’s ECREE over the course of the publication process.

Yes. Yes, it would. This is so tiring.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#149

When I see dark matter in the news I'm always reminded of the story of Vulcan. In the 1800s, detailed observations of the planet Mercury showed that its orbit was slightly different than Newtonian mechanics predicted-- a difference of about 43 arcseconds per century. The study was rigorous enough to rule out any observation errors. Le Verrier, the astronomer who made these observations, wondered how to explain the di…

Astrophysicists have gone all through this. Absent direct observation or at least a good explanation of what it actually is, I don't think anyone really likes dark matter. The main objection is that it feels a little too flexible: you can explain a lot of things by adding mass in different places. But it's not infinitely flexible: you don't need arbitrary and utterly weird distributions of dark matter. And so it's generally emerged as the best explanation of observations so far, and not for lack of trying with tweaks to theories of gravity themselves.

Re: Newton's law of gravity passes its biggest test

#150
post #2

If you follow Sabine Hossenfelder's channel, she has a MONDOmeter. With MOND (modified Newtonian gravity) on one side and dark matter on the other side. As new papers come out the needle goes back and forth, and I guess that she will make a new video if she hasn't already, with the needle moving one step towards dark matter. I find it interesting how it doesn't seem to settle. Dark matter is still the favorite, but t…

Dark Matter : supposedly makes up a big amount of the mass of the universe, but cant be seen, does not emit, absorb, or reflect light. Also it can 'pass through' other normal matter, and other dark matter. It's basically magic aka not actually real, just something in vogue to pretend is real at the present moment.

Dark matter doesn't necessarily have to be a new kind of particle (though there are enough constraints it's a bit hard to explain otherwise): it could be cold dust, gas, diffuse and tiny black holes, or large amounts of cold rocky planets.
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