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Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

rivian.com

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Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#141
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA? I get some updates OTA, but the dealer has to install some others, and when I took it there they updated it with a USB stick.

Nice, thanks for the reply; this is surprisingly undocumented online. Presumably if they got cornered and the module under repair was updatable via this mechanism they'd have some ability to use that system, then. I wonder how charitable they will be about using it for non-recall updates for customers who have solely chosen to opt out. Rivian are probably the only major manufacturer I've never had a chance to look at…

I said this elsewhere, but I had trouble with Kia even for an issue covered by recall. Because I hadn’t had the update done, they refused to cover.

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#142
post #33

> limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle: ... over-the-air updates, which provide new ... safety enhancements ... I wonder what happens if you disable the e-SIM (in the US) and then a safety recall appears via software update - do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA? This is a huge unresolved issue with EVs IMO; ICE cars are required to provide emissions-relevant updates over sof…

This is tangential, but Kia declined to cover an engine failure, under warranty that was extended by recall, because I had not done an update. Edit: I eventually recovered most of the cost via a settlement court.

Yeah, because you allegedly consented to them being able to update your ECUs via the mobile link in the cars when you bought the car.

As if I needed another reason to keep my 2014 skoda.

If i ever have to get a new car, i will disable telemetry, and i will buy it either without telemetry, or with the agreement that i do not consent to telemetry.

(read the fine print before getting a new car. the shit they can do that can go wrong and you have to pay for.. no wonder old cars cost as much as new ones.)

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#143
post #33

> limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle: ... over-the-air updates, which provide new ... safety enhancements ... I wonder what happens if you disable the e-SIM (in the US) and then a safety recall appears via software update - do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA? This is a huge unresolved issue with EVs IMO; ICE cars are required to provide emissions-relevant updates over sof…

WiFi. Flip it on for an update, then leave it off. > do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA? Yes.

I kinda assume the dealer does this as part of any service they do. Either that, or they update some other way. My software notices went away when I had my service done, even though I’ve opted out of everything (and verified again after).

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#144
post #64
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what happens if you disable the e-SIM (in the US) and then a safety recall appears via software update - do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA? I would assume so. Even on older cars, service techs can typically manually push firmware updates over the OBD-II / J2534 port. Rivian's OBD-II port actually hides an Ethernet signal inside of it - so the interface is certainly there. Fun fa…

> Rivian's OBD-II port actually hides an Ethernet signal inside of it - so the interface is certainly there. Nice. This is really normal now, for what it's worth - all of the European makes have moved this direction as well (DoIP over ENET). There's shockingly little documentation about Rivian online, though, probably because emissions regulation doesn't mandate it.

For those unfamiliar with DoIP:

https://automotivevehicletesting.com/vehicle-diagnostics/doi...

https://www.iso.org/standard/13400-2

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#145
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi. Flip it on for an update, then leave it off. > do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA? Yes.

WiFi is, err, still OTA, although it does answer the eSIM question. I assume the truly concerned/paranoid wouldn't want to connect to WiFi either, since presumably telemetry / tracking metadata could be uploaded at that time too.

Anyone concerned about preventing telemetry from being uploaded would probably also be concerned about taking it to the dealer for an update, though. Because how do you know the dealer won't just do an update by turning the car's e-SIM back on, then turning it off before giving the car back to you? Which would then allow the car to upload all the stored telemetry you're concerned about. (Note: generic "you" meaning "the person concerned about telemetry", not bri3d in particular). Or, as long as they've connected a device to the car that can upload data, how do you know that that device won't also download stored data, which the dealership can then upload over their own WiFi?

I believe the truly concerned/paranoid will not want to take their car to the dealership for updates at all. Which would, IMHO, be a mistake: having known security holes in your car's software is more likely to lead to a privacy invasion (via getting your car hacked at some point) than letting the dealership get their hands on it for a few hours.

(I should note that all of this is theoretical for me: I drive a car that's old enough it doesn't have any software).

EDIT to add this P.S.: Actually, I can think of one category of people who would be concerned enough to turn off the car's ability to connect to the Internet, but feel fine about taking it to a dealer for updates. That would be people who want to turn off the car's Internet connectivity not because of privacy concerns, but because they don't want anyone to be able to disable the car (either via hacking or via "legitimate" means, i.e. the manufacturer does it) while they're driving. Such a person would care a lot about the car's Internet access being completely off while they are driving, but not care about it being turned on while it is at the dealership.

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#146
post #133

Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.

>disables lane keeping assistance That is a desirable outcome. I have driven about half a dozen vehicles with this feature, and it has been annoying 100% of the time, and never helpful at all. In the company van I drive (Citroën Berlingo) I have to disable it every time I start the car. The lane keeping gets confused all the time by snow or dirt or when merging onto the motorway, or fucking background radiation - I d…

Well, I love my lane assistance (Hyundai). If I didn't want it though, it's a very easy (and "sticky") toggle in settings.

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#147
post #133

Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.

>disables lane keeping assistance That is a desirable outcome. I have driven about half a dozen vehicles with this feature, and it has been annoying 100% of the time, and never helpful at all. In the company van I drive (Citroën Berlingo) I have to disable it every time I start the car. The lane keeping gets confused all the time by snow or dirt or when merging onto the motorway, or fucking background radiation - I d…

My car from ~2020 has an intermediate "low" setting which I've been pretty happy with. The default "high" is a frustrating distraction though, jarringly affecting the wheel even when I'm very-well-aware of what's going on and have my own plans for the curves ahead.

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#148

Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.

You have a lot of trouble driving your car inside the lanes?

LOL, is this really your only thought?

Did you also disable ABS and refuse to use smart cruise control?

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#149

Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.

If you need lane keeping assistance you should just accept you need internet connectivity at all times like wtf cars didn’t always have that just drive straight.

LOL, you guys really read quite funny if that's the way you decide to comment on that.

Re: Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand how it could disable some features. Hyundai has a GPS-assisted database of highways that are approved for enhanced driver assist (HDA2).

I assume by lane keeping assistance they mean the more basic camera based system to warn and potentially correct drivers if they drift over a line without indicating. It makes sense it could also be geofenced to limit it to highways.

I think this is exactly how it works (also offline in my Hyundai).
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