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Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

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Re: Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

#141

Post by imtringued »

crabbone wrote: post #64
wlkr wrote: post #32

This might just be the frequency illusion at play, but there seem to have been a number of high-profile supply chain attacks of late in major packages. There are several articles on the first few pages of HN right now with different cases. Looking back ten years to `left-pad`, are there more successful attacks now than ever? I would suspect so, and surely the value of a successful attack has also increased, so are we…

> Looking back ten years to `left-pad`, are there more successful attacks now than ever? I can't vouch for the number of attacks, but, and since we are talking about Python, nothing substantially changed since the time of `left-pad`. The same bad things that enabled supply chain attacks in Python ten years ago are in place today. However, it looks like there are more projects and they are more interconnected than bef…

virtualenv isn't relocatable out of the box, so how else would you deploy a python project?

You can call it laziness, but it's not like the python ecosystem has ever developed an answer for this problem. The only reasonable answer has been to use docker, which is basically admitting that the python community did nothing.

Re: Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

#145

Post by zelphirkalt »

SupLockDef wrote: post #73
fnoef wrote: post #55

Looks like coding is in a downward spiral towards complete chaos

When I was a kid, we've been told to be cautious with third party dependencies, that code can do anything and it's a risk to evaluate. With the new generation of yolo NPM scripters, they simply don't evaluate the risks. They will even fight back telling you that it's the way of doing things. In reality, it's the warning we learnt back then, that's the result of be mindlessly importing third dependencies without think…

That, and it is combined with not being willing to write a few functions oneself, which one could easily do, and then not have to add a dependency. But it is also a result of trying to do everything quickly quickly! and being pushed to do that.

The more one knows about computer programming, algorithms, data structures, how things are usually implemented in general, the better one can avoid unnecessary dependencies. Needs the right environment though to execute on that.

Re: Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

#146

Post by OtherShrezzing »

lacunary wrote: post #69
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the relatively near future we’re going to start seeing sophisticated supply chain attacks into language model training data. It should be feasible to design vulnerabilities which look benign individually in training data, but when composed together in the agent plane & executed in a chain introduce an exploit. There’s nothing technical really stopping that from existing right now. It’s just that nobody has…

The develop-test-refine feedback loop for this kind of attack is so long (or expensive) that it seems likely to limit its real world use. Poison training data, wait months? a year? for the model to come out, see how well it worked, refine... or do you see a faster way to iterate?

Continual learning is the next major architectural milestone for the frontier labs. That’d reduce the iteration loop to days instead of years.

If your attacker assumes that all or most software will be generated from language models, the time penalty is worth paying.

Re: Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

#147

Post by ramon156 »

mkeeter wrote: post #3

A repository search shows 2.2K repos with the text "A Mini Shai-Hulud has Appeared", all created within the past day: https://github.com/search?q=A%20Mini%20Shai-Hulud%20has%20Ap...

https://github.com/tinin46

this account seems to store a lot of keys, not sure what theyre for

Re: Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

#148

Post by ramon156 »

rvz wrote: post #54
pixel_popping wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, pin the malware :p

Nope. Those on pinned versions don't get the malware. You would have to publish the infected package first to infect others who haven't pinned their dependencies. With a simple pip install -U, and if the dependency is not pinned, then they will get the vulnerable version.

I think it was a jab at the statement "if I pin the dep, I am safe". How do you know your current code is not compromised? No one reads all the code they run, anyway.

Re: Shai-Hulud Themed Malware Found in the PyTorch Lightning AI Training Library

#150

Post by redsocksfan45 »

gib444 wrote: post #133
stronglikedan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tool for building things. I can build those things equally well with or without it, maybe saving some time with it (arguable)), but I'm not dependent on it.

No, I'd posit the average developer who pulls in hundreds of deps but now uses LLMs to effectively replace them can not build things equally well without either. Of course most devs lie to ourselves because of our ego that pulling in deps is /just/ a time-saving measure, but of course we know there are some incredibly high quality libraries and frameworks that we don't have the skills or experience to replicate to th…

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