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EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

juraj.bednar.io

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Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#141

Post by Zak »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122
jdrek1 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is what follows. They will make it mandatory to use the electronic ID to do anything, resulting in total surveillance. And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing.

> And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing. Not really. Government is not Big Tech. This happens with accounts of some tech companies precisely because they're private entities setting their own rules in the still wild "wild west" of the Internet. Governments set…

Being banned from life due to a TOS violation is a real concern because it's already hard to do a bunch of things without a Google or Apple account. If Google and Apple can require a government ID to create such an account, it becomes very difficult to evade a ban.

Options to get around that problem include regulating Apple and Google or mandating that essential services not require accounts with third-party providers.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#143

Post by malka1986 »

coldtea wrote: post #17
delusional wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it has anything to do with changes in elections directly. My government has been talking for a while making the case that social media use makes us dumber, sadder, and more scared. I believe it's true that they also see that playing out in elections, but that's not where they want to solve a problem. Wouldn't it be strange if solving a problem didn't affect elections?

> My government has been talking for a while making the case that social media use makes us dumber, sadder, and more scared. I believe it's true that they also see that playing out in elections, but that's not where they want to solve a problem. The governments themselves are "dumber, sadder, and more scared". They are worried because social media puts regular people talking on equal footing to official propagandas (…

they have the lowest approval ratings and legitimization in over half a century, because they're making everything shittier and shittier to the benefit of their corporate overlords.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#144

Post by fauigerzigerk »

bootsmann wrote: post #126
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the spec? I have, but I don't understand how the revocation flow is supposed to be safe against collusion between issuers/governments and site owners to reveal the identity of (age verified) users.

Can you model the flow of the attack you want to mount here? Is it the following: Issuer revokes the wallet of Alice and then publicly says “This ID is Alice btw” and then verifiers can check their lists to see whether any of their received signatures are revoked (in which case they must be Alice)

The EU's own experts have modeled it. At least that's my understanding of what they are saying in their "Privacy risks and mitigation" document [1].

Section 5 mentions that this issue could be mitigated at some point in the future by using ZKPs, but here's what they're saying about the status of this ZKP integration:

"This topic will be revisited in Topic G to determine the foundational requirements needed for its future integration"

Doesn't sound like this will be implemented any time soon.

[1] https://eudi.dev/2.5.0/discussion-topics/a-privacy-risks-and...

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#145

Post by gib444 »

maccard wrote: post #87
pzo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference you barely have to show you physical ID - mostly only when interacting with bank, signing document, government. I never got asked when buying alcohol and if asked at least I would only let to have a look instead of snapping a picture. Imagine if suddenly every grocery, pharmacy, petrol station, parking place, restaurant, bar etc. now would ask you for your ID AND would snap a picture and store in their…

If you want an example of how this will be abused by companies, https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/12/airport-shops-...

And if you want an example of who has the power these days, I've encountered airport shops that are "take it leave it" (WHSmith in Spain in fact). I was told they can't require my boarding pass, but they won't sell me anything without it... (There was no language barrier)

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#146

Post by dwedge »

pmlnr wrote: post #133
dwedge wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or using social media, signing up for any account where you can post content, and soon creating an account on your own device. As for why would they, the same reason there are hundreds of tracking cookies on every site.

The same social media that stores everything down to your keystrokes ? Sure, the problem is needing a gov ID, sure.

Self aware wolf. You don't see the problem with associating that level of tracking with your gov id?

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#149

Post by sunshine-o »

In the end the dilemma goes like this for most users:

- If you rely on Big Tech for your identity and data you loose all privacy but can expect some security.

- If you go with your government you still loose your privacy but also all security.

I saw on HN just in the last month that the EU and France got hacked and very sensitive data is now on the Internet.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#150

Post by wolvoleo »

rcbdev wrote: post #113
croes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A simple solution is just not providing your kids with a phone or computer. That’s not a solution. Nowadays many schools require access to a computer.

These schools, at least here where I am in Europe, have to provide their pupils with devices. How else would it be fair?

Yes the bigger problem is those schools often provide them with chromebooks with are mass surveilance devices in disguise :'(
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