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The Joy of Folding Bikes

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Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#141

Post by SeanLuke »

cycomanic wrote: post #90
SeanLuke wrote: post #70

I own what could possibly be the coolest folding bike ever made: the Bike Friday Tikit Hyperfold. It has a folding mechanism with an extremely high nerd quotient. It has a reputation as the fastest bike to fold and unfold, requiring no latches, safeties, or adjustment at all. But more importantly, unlike many other exotic folders (ahem Brompton) it largely uses standard parts. You can fit it with whatever drivetrain,…

I still think the strida folding bikes are the ones with the highest nerd quotient. Never ridden one myself, but been tempted a couple of times. In particular the low weight compared to any other folding bike is appealing. Unfortunately they are difficult to find for test rides and they look quirky enough that I'd want to do a test ride before buying

The strida is certainly the *dorkiest*, not nerdiest, looking design, but in terms of engineering, it's very bad. It is terrible, TERRIBLE to ride, with horrible mechanical trail. It is extremely unstable. It has no gearing options at all and has essentially no standard parts. It is very clearly the outcome of a designer rather than an engineer ("Let's start with the idea of a bike that folds like a ladder").

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#142

Post by Liftyee »

SeanLuke wrote: post #140
thih9 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decathlon btwin one second has been praised for its design and easy unfolding; it’s relatively cheap and still being produced. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XX2VSaXmAoo

Praised by whom? The btwin folder is a low-rent and low quality version of a Dahon-style Chinese fold-in-half folder. That folding design is about 95% of the folding market, and has no clever design features whatsoever. It is simple to manufacture, has no patents, and is pretty bad in general riding use. It is neither fast to fold nor compact, and is very bad in customization, particularly with regard to the rider's…

Praised by most customers, probably. As an engineer I appreciate Bike Friday's attention to detail and I own a good few "artisan" devices myself, but the reality is that most people want a mass-produced bike that is "good enough" within their budget.

There's no doubt that your bike is higher quality than the Decathlon one, but the average customer doesn't appreciate how well engineered it is or how many patents (??) are involved.

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#143

Post by jodrellblank »

paperboy10000 wrote: post #138

I've lived in the UK as a student in 1997 and it was hell owning bicycle then. People threw stones at me from cars while I was biking on the side of the road. Glad to hear biking has gone mainstream. Don't forget to pay respects to many of us pioneers, some whom survived some who didn't.

The UK is rife with "driver hit cyclist and killed them, says 'I didn't see them' and gets little or no punishment". e.g.

- Driver gets 2 years community service for killing a cyclist because he was "distracted by temporary traffic lights". Unable to explain why he didn't see her[1].

- Driver kills cyclist because he was blowing his nose and didn't see them. Judge says there is "no point sending someone like that to prison for 3 months" so he doesn't. Community service and a year's driving ban.[2]

- Driver gets 3 years in prison for killing a cyclist. Unable to provide an explanation other than "he didn't see her"[3].

- Motorcyclist 'drifts into other lane' and kills cyclist, 6 months in prison. 12 months in prison on top for speeding[4].

- 19 year old driver who passed their test 2 months ago hit and killed cyclist. 1 year driving ban, £240 fine and some community service[5].

- Delivery driver who didn't see a cyclist, hit them, pushed them into the path of an oncoming car, and they died; found not guilty of causing 'death by dangerous driving' by jury[6].

- Lorry driver covered his side view camera with his coat, hit and killed cyclist. 6 months suspended prison sentence, 6 weeks community service and a 2 year driving ban.[7]

[1] https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/25962820.driver-sentenced-killi...

[2] https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/motorist-avoi...

[3] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37997166/mum-sent-husband-last...

[4] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-38585562

[5] https://road.cc/content/news/teenage-motorist-who-killed-cyc...

[6] https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/crime-courts/63324...

[7] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nhs-cambridgeshi...

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#144

Post by crazygringo »

Gigachad wrote: post #54
jmm5 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any decent mass transit system in the world is packed at rush hour. The whole advantage over private vehicles comes from the fact that people take up less space.

I agree it's a fairly common issue but I feel like it's not an impossible issue to solve. A person and a bike is still massively smaller than a person in an SUV. The system is basically designed with just enough capacity to barely work. But I feel like if we really wanted PT to be the obvious best choice it should be provisioned a bit over the least possible capacity.

I mean sure it's not impossible if you are willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to tunnel additional subway lines all over the place.

When they were built, these subway systems obviously were provisioned over expected capacity. But obviously, cities grow and nobody has a crystal ball to know what the population of a city will be 50 years from now.

The thing about subways is that adding significantly more capacity on an existing line isn't really possible if you are already running the trains as close as possible together as safety allows, which is often the case at rush hour. It's not like buses where you can just add more to the schedule.

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#145

Post by jodrellblank »

sherr wrote: post #81
emptybits wrote: post #76

Piling on with the Brompton love here. Apartment friendly. Car trunk friendly. Motorcycle sidecar friendly. Their hardcase makes it airplane friendly. Theft-resistant, since it's carried and stored next to you more often than most bikes. The Brompton luggage system (its mount and low, forward position) is amazing. Bags can be massive and carry a lot of weight and the bike still feels great to ride. For pedals, I use…

"Theft-resistant" I have two Bromptons (a 3 and a 6 speed). Unfortunately, I've also had TWO stolen .. painful. This was years ago now and both were locked up in central London. The second time, locked via a "Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit", a good U-lock. An angle-grinder gets through these easily and they're battery powered. I don't believe ANY bike lock is safe now and never lock the Brompton up outside. Great…

Someone else in these comments: angle-grinder-resistant locks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47909705

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#146

Post by enizor2 »

jdietrich wrote: post #134
Gigachad wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, just having a $7,000 bike parked on the street would be too stressful even if it didn't get stolen. I've had bikes stolen in Australia and there is basically nothing you can do about it. The thieves have hoodies, masks, and battery powered grinders that will cut any lock. The only defense is storing your bike inside. And then you get karens on the owners corp whinging that you aren't allowed to take bikes ins…

>battery powered grinders that will cut any lock Not any more. A new generation of locks have an abrasive-filled plastic layer that aggressively wears down angle grinder discs. They aren't completely immune to angle grinders, but the better locks will take 20 minutes and multiple cutting discs to defeat. https://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/wrecked-and-rated-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tuFesVtAA

Only if you use regular metal discs. Using diamond discs, you break through in less than a minute in those locks: [1]

Comparing with your CyclyngWeekly link:

- the Litelock X3 goes from 5min to cut only 50% of the shackle to 23s fully cut.

- the Abus Granit Super Extreme 2500 also could only be cut to 50% in 5min, while the diamond disc finished in 29s.

- the Hiplok D1000 couldn't be fully cut in 5min with 2 metal discs, it took 52s with a diamond one.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbdj3RRbLPQ.

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#147

Post by Ylpertnodi »

morsch wrote: post #93
gloomyday wrote: post #89

I really wanted an e-scooter to help my shorter routes here in Germany, but the legislation is quite unfriendly to it now. I need insurance and can't carry it in public transport. Maybe a folding bike would be great.

Yeah it's ridiculous. Boomers legislating away a method of transportation they have no use for, combined with a few people using it with little regard or civility, and rental operators so focused on competition that they're unwilling to enforce the rules. But really, mostly it's the first of the three factors. Thank god they're avid adoptors of ebikes, making those safe for now.

In several countries in the eu (if not all) they restricted ebikes to 25kmh.

Car driverss going at 30kph get really pissed off.

I'd love an ebike for work travel but dislike playing tag with 1-tonne machines. At least on my road bike I can ride at a casual pace, with occasional mad accelerations.

It seems less dangerous to me to go at 15kmh.

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#148

Post by Ylpertnodi »

Liftyee wrote: post #142
SeanLuke wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Praised by whom? The btwin folder is a low-rent and low quality version of a Dahon-style Chinese fold-in-half folder. That folding design is about 95% of the folding market, and has no clever design features whatsoever. It is simple to manufacture, has no patents, and is pretty bad in general riding use. It is neither fast to fold nor compact, and is very bad in customization, particularly with regard to the rider's…

Praised by most customers, probably. As an engineer I appreciate Bike Friday's attention to detail and I own a good few "artisan" devices myself, but the reality is that most people want a mass-produced bike that is "good enough" within their budget. There's no doubt that your bike is higher quality than the Decathlon one, but the average customer doesn't appreciate how well engineered it is or how many patents (??)…

I have several bikes. My decathlon foldy is great.

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#149

Post by Ylpertnodi »

thih9 wrote: post #102
_vhdk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have consistently heard that the bikes by decathlon are very poor quality and fall apart easily. Is it a case of you get what you pay for?

Of course you get what you pay for. Note that this is not Decathlon’s cheapest folding bike.

With decathlon you have to watch the numbers...

100 series = basic and cheaper 900 series = advanced and more costly

Re: The Joy of Folding Bikes

#150

Post by jodrellblank »

fuzzythinker wrote: post #101
emptybits wrote: post #76

Piling on with the Brompton love here. Apartment friendly. Car trunk friendly. Motorcycle sidecar friendly. Their hardcase makes it airplane friendly. Theft-resistant, since it's carried and stored next to you more often than most bikes. The Brompton luggage system (its mount and low, forward position) is amazing. Bags can be massive and carry a lot of weight and the bike still feels great to ride. For pedals, I use…

Can you explain what makes the Brompton design genius? Edit: the top comment (at this time) has a youtube link that shows it fold/unfold in like 8 secs. I can see the genius in it now

Not sure if it was my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47907337 which does have a video like that. But, the Brompton folding design:

- folds in 3 pieces (tri-fold) instead of folding in half (bi-fold). It was innovative at the time, is more common now. That makes it fold smaller than bi-fold bikes.

- keeps the oily chain and chainrings in between the wheels. Some other bikes which only fold in half have the oily bits on the outside[1], and/or the chainring sticking quite far out[2]

- When folded, the mucky main wheels are lifted off the ground by the little roller wheels[3].

- Brompton folds into almost a square which can stand up on its own, or pack reasonably neatly into a box, bag, or trunk. Other bikes can be more pointy, less convenient shapes when folded. e.g. [1] the bar grips stick out, the pedal sticks out the other side, the front chain ring sticks out.

- Brompton is useful partially-folded. With just the rear wheel tucked under it will stand up on its own. With just the seat or just the handlebars unfolded it can be wheeled around on the little roller wheels like a suitcase. It can be folded while leaving the front bag on without the bag going upside down, and with the bag accessible to wheel around using it like a shopping trolley.

- When folded, the top-tube of the bike is along the top of the fold, so is the seat, giving decent balanced places to lift and carry it like a suitcase.[4]

- One side has a folding pedal to tuck it away. The other side doesn't. I just think it's neat.

- Maybe goes without saying, but it can be folded without tools instead of being disassembled. Full size bikes can have joints in the frame so they come apart for packing for travel, but you just get a pile of separate pieces. Some medium size folding bikes need a wheel removed and only really fold for packing into a car, rather than something you'd do on the fly for a train trip. "Folding bikes" is not unique to Brompton, but in the market of "all bikes which can be made smaller", folding was a thing Brompton made mainstream, partly by inventing a fold that was so convenient.

[1] https://photo.velo101.com/wordpress/2022/09/DSC_6300-scaled....

[2] https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Bike-Frid...

[3] https://www.cyclox.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Brompton-f...

[4] https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/kA2bWNiWVEEKVTYBQgqbw9-102...

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