Anthropic must be loving it. It's free money.
Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
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Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#142The "multiplier" on Github Copilot went from 3 to 7.5. Nice to see that it is actually only 20-30% and Microsoft wanting to lose money slightly slower. https://docs.github.com/fr/copilot/reference/ai-models/suppo...
Yep, and I just made a recommendation that was essentially "never enable Opus 4.7" to my org as a direct result. We have Opus 4.6 (3x) and Opus 4.5 (3x) enabled currently. They are worth it for planning . At 7.5x for 4.7, heck no. It isn't even clear it is an upgrade over Opus 4.6.
in copilot I find it hard to justify using opus at even 3x vs just using GPT 5.4 high at 1x
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#143It does cost more but I found the quality of output much higher. I prefer it over the dumbing of effort/models they were doing for the last two months. They have to get users used to picking the appropriate model for their task (or have an automatic mode - but still let me force it to a model).
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#144Yeah I noticed today, I had it work up a spreadsheet for me and I only got 3 or 4 turns in the conversation before it used up all my (pro) credits. It wasn't even super-complicated or anything, only moderately so.
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#145IMHO there is a point where incremental model quality will hit diminishing returns. It is like comparing an 8K display to a 16K display because at normal viewing distance, the difference is imperceptible, but 16K comes at significant premium. The same applies to intelligence. Sure, some users might register a meaningful bump, but if 99% can't tell the difference in their day-to-day work, does it matter? A 20-30% cost…
Depends a lot on the task demands. "Got 95% of the way to designing a successful drug" and "Got 100% of the way" is a huge difference in terms of value, and that small bump in intelligence would justify a few orders of magnitude more in cost.
But that objective measure is exactly what we’re lacking in programming: There is often many ways to skin a cat, but the model only takes one. Without knowing about those it didn’t take, how do you judge the quality of a new model?
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#146LLMs exist on a logaritmhic performance/cost frontier. It's not really clear whether Opus 4.5+ represent a level shift on this frontier or just inhabits place on that curve which delivers higher performance, but at rapidly diminishing returns to inference cost. To me, it is hard to reject this hypothesis today. The fact that Anthropic is rapidly trying to increase price may betray the fact that their recent lead is a…
They're also getting closer to IPO and have a growing user base. They can't justify losing a very large number of billions of other people's money in their IPO prospectus. So there's a push for them to increase revenue per user, which brings us closer to the real cost of running these models.
The "real cost" of running near-SOTA models is not a secret: you can run local models on your own infrastructure. When you do, you quickly find out that typical agentic coding incurs outsized costs by literal orders of magnitude compared to the simple Q&A chat most people use AI for. All tokens are very much not created equal, and the typical coding token (large model, large noisy context) costs a lot even under best-case caching scenarios.
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#147It doesn't look good for Anthropic, especially considering they are burning billions in investor money. Looks like they lost the mandate of heaven, if Open AI plays it right it might be their end. Add to that the open source models from China.
OpenAI is dealing with exactly the same energetic and financial constraints as Anthropic. That will become apparent soon.
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#148Claude seems so frustrating lately to the point where I avoid and completely ignore it. I can't identify a single cause but I believe it's mostly the self-righteousness and leadership that drive all the decisions that make me distrust and disengage with it.
What do you mean by this? What are you frustrated by?
You're offended by their political beliefs, so you don't like the way the model works?
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#149So intelligence has turned into a utility per Sam Altman et al., and now the same companies get to hike the price of accessing it by 20–30%, right as it’s becoming the backbone of how teams actually ship work. People are pushing out so much, so fast that last week’s output is already a blur. I’ve got colleagues who refuse to go back to writing any of this stuff by hand.
And now maintaining that pace means absorbing arbitrary price increases, shrugged off with “we were operating at a loss anyway.”
It stops being “pay to play” and starts looking more like pay just to stay in the ring, while enterprise players barely feel the hit and everyone else gets squeezed out.
Market maturing my butthole... it’s obviously a dependency being priced in real time. Tech is an utter shit show right now, compounded by the disaster of the unemployment market still reeling from the overhiring of 2020.
save up now and career pivot. pick up gardening.
Re: Measuring Claude 4.7's tokenizer costs
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, and I'm also quite skeptical that Anthropic will be able to remain true to its initial, noble mission statement of acting for the global good once they IPO. At that point you are beholden to your shareholders and no longer can eschew profit in favor of ethics. Unfortunately, I think this is the beginning of the end of Anthropic and Modei being a company and CEO you could actually get behind and believe that…
I think the pivot to profit over good has been happening for a long time. See Dario hyping and salivating over all programming jobs disappearing in N months. He doesn't care at all if it's true or not. In fact he's in a terrible position to even understand if this is possible or not (probably hasn't coded for 10+ years). He's just in the business of selling tokens.
And worse, he (eventually) has to sell tokens above cost - which may have so much "baggage" (read: debt to pay Nvidia) that it'll be nearly impossible; or a new company will come to play with the latest and greatest hardware and undercut them.
Just how if Boeing was able to release a supersonic plane that was also twice as efficient tomorrow; it'd destroy any airline that was deep in debt for its current "now worthless" planes.