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Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

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Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#141

Post by glerk »

kanbankaren wrote: post #137
glerk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's totally fair, and I'll cross that bridge when I get there like everyone else :) My philosophy is: either I'll live to benefit from technology that can repair the damage caused by aging, in which case health micro-optimizations early in life are not that important, OR this won't be achieved within my lifetime, in which case I prefer a short life with concentrated happiness, vitality and intensity in my youth.

There is some new scientific finding that in deep sleep, fluids from the brain drain out and if that flushing doesn't happen, it might lead to Alzheimer's disease. You should at least monitor your deep sleep using a smartwatch. Less than 1.5 hours and I would be worried.

Thanks, I am aware of reduced cerebrospinal fluid flushing as well as the increased neural inflammation in general and I am trying to compensate for that as best as I can.

I am not too worried about Alzheimer's as it tends to start pretty late in life (I think average onset is around mid-60s?). If I get that and we don't have a reliable cure by then, I wouldn't really mind ending it quickly after getting the diagnosis. I'm a bit more worried about heart disease as that tends to hit earlier.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#142

Post by BeetleB »

glerk wrote: post #129

I got 4h of sleep last night which is about my normal average at this time of the year, and I have 0 regrets about it. I also don't sleep at a regular time every day. If I have no other obligations, I naturally let it shift forward (what the article calls "delayed sleep phase"). I am most unhappy when I HAVE TO use an alarm clock and break my own patterns. Last night, I naturally went to sleep right before sunrise an…

I would suggest looking into the medical research on the downsides of getting little sleep. After a single night of low sleep (and 4 hours is low), even though you'll feel fine, your body will not process a lot of things the way it normally should (e.g. insulin response is significantly degraded).

Over time, it supposedly significantly increases the likelihood of certain diseases/conditions.

Peter Attia was one of those people who got by with little sleep, and for years, well into his medical career, was dismissive of those who preached the importance of 8 hours of sleep a day. He then looked into the research, and completely changed his mind:

https://peterattiamd.com/category/sleep/

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#143

Post by drakonka »

rimliu wrote: post #71
johnthedebs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, and understanding that individual babies do differ, most babies can sleep through the night (10-12 hours) by 3-4 months old. Check out the books "Twelve Hours' Sleep by Twelve Weeks Old" or "Precious Little Sleep" for guidance. In my case where n=2, naps during the day are/were not all that consistent but at night (unless they are very sick or something) the kids sleep .

Yeah. My wife was breastfeeding and she could do that half-asleep. Barely any sleep was lost.

Half asleep definitely doesn't sound like good quality, restorative sleep.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#144

Post by andai »

BeetleB wrote: post #142
glerk wrote: post #129

I got 4h of sleep last night which is about my normal average at this time of the year, and I have 0 regrets about it. I also don't sleep at a regular time every day. If I have no other obligations, I naturally let it shift forward (what the article calls "delayed sleep phase"). I am most unhappy when I HAVE TO use an alarm clock and break my own patterns. Last night, I naturally went to sleep right before sunrise an…

I would suggest looking into the medical research on the downsides of getting little sleep. After a single night of low sleep (and 4 hours is low), even though you'll feel fine, your body will not process a lot of things the way it normally should (e.g. insulin response is significantly degraded). Over time, it supposedly significantly increases the likelihood of certain diseases/conditions. Peter Attia was one of th…

When I was looking into the dual n back stuff a while back, I remember reading one report where the person would feel subjectively fine when sleep deprived, but his nback score would go way down.

In other words it's possible to "feel fine" on little sleep and yet be significantly cognitively impaired. Worth measuring that, if possible.

(It might have been Gwern, he's got a big page on the subject.)

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#145

Post by antisthenes »

officehero wrote: post #111
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #72

I think a lot of it has to do with mental status, which can be concluded with one sentence -- "Are you happy with your life, and if not do you have a clear path to reach that?". People who say no probably has a lot of trouble to get fit, get enough sleep -- sometimes NOT because they do not have the resources, but because they are not happy. They hate life, so why makes it better? I have observed this in myself so I…

This is the type of hen-egg dialectic that takes me straight to evolutionary theory. My guess is that the 'standard human tribe', ~200 strong, needs some people to be up at night. But since we don't have dedicated day/night humans, we all get this shared mess of a genome 'you need to be up at night sometimes'.

> But since we don't have dedicated day/night humans

Yeah we absolutely do. The night-owls and larks are pretty well established at this point.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#146

Post by lamasery »

johnthedebs wrote: post #67
sminchev wrote: post #11

How can I explain to my 6 months old girl that we all need to sleep :D This is a bug in the universe! We need to sleep so that the levels of dopamine, and hormones of hunger and not hunger are at good levels, so that we can be healthy and strong, so that the immune system is stable and strong... And we need to get good sleep so that we can protect our children and be sane.... BUT the nature decided that the kids will…

FWIW, and understanding that individual babies do differ, most babies can sleep through the night (10-12 hours) by 3-4 months old. Check out the books "Twelve Hours' Sleep by Twelve Weeks Old" or "Precious Little Sleep" for guidance. In my case where n=2, naps during the day are/were not all that consistent but at night (unless they are very sick or something) the kids sleep .

3 for 3 sleeping through the night by 60 days. All we did was have a feeding schedule that we stuck to pretty closely, and around week 2 started intentionally delaying our response to night-time crying, gradually increasing how far we stretched it (start with maybe a minute, increase over time). They wake up at night and don’t know how to self-soothe back to sleep if you always jump in the second they make a sound, they don’t actually need night time feedings past the first few weeks, responding immediately trains them not to fall back asleep on their own if they stir at night (and everyone does). Down to one feeding at night by a month or so, none past two months.

Can’t say many other things worked equally well for all three kids, but that did.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#147

Post by dr_dshiv »

kashunstva wrote: post #68
dr_dshiv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunlight is a carcinogen

> Sunlight is a carcinogen But sunlight is essential for the cutaneous conversion of 7-dehydrocholesterol to vitamin D3, whereas ethanol serves no essential purpose, irrespective of whether one enjoys it or not. Personally I don’t consume ethanol; but I don’t care if others do or not so long as they stay off the roads and are not piloting my flight. I will say that when I did consume ethanol even in small quantities,…

Ethanol is food— you also don't need carbs, but they do keep you alive. More importantly, it fairly central to cultural vitality. Not essential but it plays a highly functional role. Maybe could be replaced by religion or other drugs, but short of that, the world is less vibrant without it.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#148

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

grvdrm wrote: post #98
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #72

I think a lot of it has to do with mental status, which can be concluded with one sentence -- "Are you happy with your life, and if not do you have a clear path to reach that?". People who say no probably has a lot of trouble to get fit, get enough sleep -- sometimes NOT because they do not have the resources, but because they are not happy. They hate life, so why makes it better? I have observed this in myself so I…

I think we're soulmates. You articulated so well what I think about my own approach or lack of approach. > Mental stability is probably one of the reasons different people have vastly different productivity or achievements. It is mental stability that brings focus, not the other way around. Agree, at least in concept. I'm aware that some of my perceived or real lack of of progress in some life areas is due to mental…

> A lot of mine focuses on career things. I've got a bank of knowledge and skills that aren't easy to replicate and a career track circled around those things, but lack (I think) the passion for that career track.

I think maybe you can move into a managerial position that doesn't need to do much in the trench, or become a trainer in that field.

> That doesn't mean that I don't want a career or have aspirations, but there's so much less clarity.

Yeah. I figured there is a lot of ambiguity in life objectives, and there is no one there to help you. You just have yourself in this game.

> What do you do to work through these challenges?

TBH, I do not know what to do. I have a toolbox for the "down" time, but neither of them really solves it. Sometimes I listen to "Napoleon Hill" episodes to give me some motivation (this one I listened to today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u5jAzHpI3w). Sometimes I talked to myself and tried to sort out something. Sometimes I talked to ChatGPT and asked it to give me a list of something.

I kinda think there is no magic pills for such situations and one just has to grit through.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#149

Post by stringfood »

hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #72

I think a lot of it has to do with mental status, which can be concluded with one sentence -- "Are you happy with your life, and if not do you have a clear path to reach that?". People who say no probably has a lot of trouble to get fit, get enough sleep -- sometimes NOT because they do not have the resources, but because they are not happy. They hate life, so why makes it better? I have observed this in myself so I…

Most people who are not happy are not happy precisely because they can't find a clear path to reach happiness. It's the realization you are stuck in a shitty spot that makes the true feeling of unhappiness. A lot of people are also restricted by their own body and mind through mental and physical illness which makes pursuing basic goals frustrating not rewarding. Also a lot of people get rejected when they chase girls and fail when they take IQ tests or pursue high paying work.... I guess your worldview makes sense for smart winners but how does it work for the other half of the world?

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#150

Post by integralid »

johnthedebs wrote: post #86
rimliu wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. My wife was breastfeeding and she could do that half-asleep. Barely any sleep was lost.

To be clear, they don't eat/feed at night either. The baby is in a separate room from us and we don't see or hear him most nights (95%+) between 7pm-6am. He's around 8.5 months old now and this has been the case for 3-4 months, although that percentage was a bit lower at the beginning. I'm emphasizing it bc many people are surprised by this, but if you know it's possible , you can start to work towards it. My partner…

4 month old should eat every 3-4 hours. You mentioned sleeping for 10-12h and this sounds almost harmful for the baby. I don't think I'd like that.

Thanks for your recommendation anyway. I'm sure that there are many science-based techniques to "tame" children and make child care as atomic family bearable.

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