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The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

economist.com

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Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#141

Post by yabutlivnWoods »

lateforwork wrote: post #92
Madmallard wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are we letting tech companies in the USA do this?

Because if we didn't we wouldn't have a tech industry? The main problem with immigrant talent in computer field is that legislators don't understand the difference between IT and Tech product development jobs. IT jobs don't need immigrant talent, so companies like Accenture, Infosys etc. should not be given H-1B visas. But tech companies like Google, Meta, Apple, OpenAI etc. absolutely need immigrant talent, or they…

> But tech companies like Google, Meta, Apple, OpenAI etc. absolutely need immigrant talent, or they will lose to Chinese competitors.

Let them lose.

Google and the rest do not prop up humanity. They prop up a financial engineering Ponzi scheme.

You're just parroting media and social tropes you grew up with.

We could assert in our children social truth about other forms of economics; for example, healthcare as a tent pole rather than stock valuations; still requires technology and jobs and we don't remain the last modern economy on the planet without universal healthcare. We're losing to Russia and China in healthcare.

But thankfully we win when the metric phallic rockets to nowhere and Google search uptime?

You should consider your economic benchmarks and their provenance; a bunch of self selecting biological organisms that we socially describe as billionaires have convinced you via their fear mongering that if we don't give them all the power giant foot will step on us

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#142

Post by yabutlivnWoods »

lateforwork wrote: post #129
woeirua wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely not true. There are plenty of Americans who can do these jobs.

> There are plenty of Americans who can do these jobs. This thinking is wrong. For IT jobs, the work is pre-defined and you go find people who can do the job. For product development this is sometimes the case, but for truly innovative products, such as AI models, this is not the case. You have to hire the best in the world and give them the resources they need, as opposed to defining the project upfront and hiring p…

"Truly innovative".

I wrote my first neural net in the late 90s. Based on nothing but an old geocities post some rando put up about training a model to only unlock a pet door for their cat.

I implemented the same and it worked.

Where you see true innovation I see run of the mill. OpenAI, Google, etc are propping up data center rental business they came to rely on to titillate biology with whatever spaghetti that sticks. That's it.

The interesting science isn't happening anywhere close to big tech.

The mathematics of LLMs exists in textbooks from 1950s. Your entire comment chain here is little more than reciting propaganda.

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#143

Post by Spooky23 »

thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #112
Spooky23 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It generates economic activity and taxes in the US and suppresses wages. Most of the H1 candidates are in shitty roles that are well defined low/moderate skill jobs for giant companies. Hire people whom you can’t actively exploit and those are the kind of jobs where unions can organize. The alternative is offshoring the work, not hiring Americans. The smart thing would be to just let people immigrate. Instead we have…

FYI, these jobs pay the highest in the world. If these jobs are exploitative, then so are other non tech jobs that employ citizens and pay lower wages.

My former organization employed ~750 contractors developing software.

Their billable rates ranged from $44-76/hr in 2022. The people in the cafeteria probably made more. They get minimum viable salary like indentured workers in hopes of getting a green card and more opportunity.

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#144

Post by Spooky23 »

Longlius wrote: post #109
Spooky23 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It generates economic activity and taxes in the US and suppresses wages. Most of the H1 candidates are in shitty roles that are well defined low/moderate skill jobs for giant companies. Hire people whom you can’t actively exploit and those are the kind of jobs where unions can organize. The alternative is offshoring the work, not hiring Americans. The smart thing would be to just let people immigrate. Instead we have…

Then offshore the work. Americans aren't getting the jobs anyway and the imported labor now competes for things like groceries, gas, housing, etc. which drives up prices.

.

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#145

Post by Rury »

kypro wrote: post #73
dvwcf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over hiring is one thing.. but that wouldnt be a problem if there was an endless stream of projects to take that are value creating. So the issue is not necessarily the over-hiring.. more that the large tech firms are running out of projects to take that are value-creating. Which is not surprising - the labour market in its currently state is absolutely not perfect in allocating labour. It should be noted that fixing…

> Over hiring is one thing.. but that wouldnt be a problem if there was an endless stream of projects to take that are value creating. I very much agree. A lot of tech job growth during the late 2010 and pandemic period were frankly BS for a ROI perspective. Late 2010s was really the first time in tech that I started to feel like most of the stuff that needed to be built was built, and increasingly I was working on B…

Isn't the need right now the need for more intelligent, context-aware software?

I mean, I feel like we've barely touched on what applications AI could be used in, that we have only just begun to start developing. It's tech that can be used in more advanced robotics, video games (adaptive NPCs, PCG, narratives), better data analysis, search, and more.

I understand the fears and dislikes around AI at the moment, but I think people need to understand that it can never fully replace human labor. At least, I am not concerned about that aspect in the slightest. To me, the real thing to fear isn't so much the tech itself, but our fellow man, and the ways they might possibly use it against others.

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#146

Post by newfriend »

lateforwork wrote: post #135
acdha wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many “best in the world” people are we talking about, though? Based on what I’ve seen that’s a very small percentage (maybe 5%) while the rest were being hired by companies who valued having workers with limited negotiating power. (I’m not opposed to immigration at all but it was transparent how for decades the industry resisted any change which would make it easier for a skilled H1-B worker to take a better job)

> having workers with limited negotiating power Sorry, this is 100% false. Companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Meta etc. do not hire H-1Bs in order to depress wages. That does happen, but not at these companies. It typically happens when hiring IT workers.

The mere presence of H1-B workers depresses wages systemically.

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#147

Post by matheusmoreira »

ghaff wrote: post #107
0xchamin wrote: post #48

One of my mentor at my company got redundant exactly a year ago. He is still looking for the next role. I really feel bad.

Post dot-com, a LOT of people basically left the industry. They may have continued on in somewhat adjacent roles but people can only afford to keep looking for the sort of employment they had for so long.

Where did they go?

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#148

Post by Ifkaluva »

throwaway1492 wrote: post #83
Aurornis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple. The 2021 over-hiring was a weird time where hiring as many people as possible became a goal in itself. There were companies growing organizations faster than they could be made productive. They acquired a lot of bureaucracy, excess structure, and inefficiency. The current backlash is trying to reverse the excess structure and middle management buildout so they can get back to more func…

Glad I was over working three full time jobs (remote w2) during that period. I stacked A LOT of cash during that those years that has appreciated nicely.

How does this show up in background checks? Genuinely curious

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#149

Post by stego-tech »

kindawinda wrote: post #123
stego-tech wrote: post #69

Would really appreciate an archive link to read this, even though it appears to be another meta-analysis wrapped in a “everything will be fine” narrative from the limited previews I’ve been able to gleam and The Economist’s general lean. The problem with the tech layoffs is that it’s poisoning the well downstream. Smaller employers have repeatedly cited their layoffs as justification for abysmal, unlivable salaries,…

Would really appreciate if you made an archive link and sharing instead of complaining

Says the person who came here specifically to complain instead of doing it themselves.

For the record, I tried, but the archive site only had the preview cached; I suspect it’s looking for a URL identifier to bypass the paywall that I lack access to, but I can’t confirm either way from a mobile device.

Re: The tech jobs bust is real. Don't blame AI (yet)

#150

Post by Longlius »

Spooky23 wrote: post #144
Longlius wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then offshore the work. Americans aren't getting the jobs anyway and the imported labor now competes for things like groceries, gas, housing, etc. which drives up prices.

.

Keep up with that rhetoric. I'm sure it will go well for you come election season.
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