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European AI. A playbook to own it

europe.mistral.ai

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Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#141

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

solarkraft wrote: post #129
blitzar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never-ending EU regulations Does anyone ever say what these regulations are? Or are they like "red tape" / "regulations on bendy bananas" / "WMDs" / "the war on christmas"?

There needs to be a signal for bureaucracy critics to use if they’re not bullshitting. Because without it, they will quickly be grouped into the “I want to do things which SHOULD be forbidden” crowd, which is a pretty vocal one.

Laws are laws. Regulations aren't laws. Usually they are just extra hoops you have to jump through to do normal things. Paperwork, studies, government reviews, agency approvals, etc. These things slow down and encumber normal business. Some of them are important and necessary. Many are not.

I am not arguing for any law to be changed to allow someone to do things most people wouldn't want them to do. I don't think the VCs are arguing for that either. And that's not the case in the EU anyhow: laws are pretty similar on the major stuff among western countries.

I don't know why you're assuming that's my position, and I don't know why it's on me to avoid being "grouped" in with anyone. Assuming things that aren't true when you get defensive is your own personal issue, not mine.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#142

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

shimman wrote: post #81
enejej wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not all that convinced on the regulation part. Ultimately it’s all about investing money to create real assets that generate cash flows. One can side step regulations to some extent whilst developing a product (nobody cares/notices until you are actually growing fast) and then deal with regulations later. Uber already showed this and the leading AI firms are following the same act - having ripped off a lot of con…

Yes, let's ignore regulations that provide people with stable jobs, societies, and countries. Afterall what good is democracy when the alternative is making more money?

Yes, let's ignore all nuance in the discussion and presume that the people saying EU has too many regulations must be saying that the only alternative is ZERO regulations.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#143

Post by geek_at »

WarmWash wrote: post #91
shimman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the US culture, it's not hard to see entrepreneurship as a societal disease. Let's not act like "entrepreneurship" is necessary at all to develop technology. Western governments simply have no ability to find their own destination as any attempt to get off the US big tech ramp comes with threats to destroy defense treaties, weapons contracts, and tariffs with their major ally. Hardly anything to do with "e…

>Good on Europeans for rejecting this American blight. Reject it? They pay hundreds of billions for it. Every year. For decades now. Europe runs on American tech, using American and Chinese hardware, powered by American energy, and protected by American defense. Surely you're confused here, because Europe didn't reject these things, they offshored them and then teased Americans about working so hard. Europe's economi…

True we pay for it so we don't have tu subject our own people to the horrible working culture of the US. No maternity leave is diabolical. No money when you're sick for a month? How do you accept this

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#144

Post by WarmWash »

geek_at wrote: post #143
WarmWash wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Good on Europeans for rejecting this American blight. Reject it? They pay hundreds of billions for it. Every year. For decades now. Europe runs on American tech, using American and Chinese hardware, powered by American energy, and protected by American defense. Surely you're confused here, because Europe didn't reject these things, they offshored them and then teased Americans about working so hard. Europe's economi…

True we pay for it so we don't have tu subject our own people to the horrible working culture of the US. No maternity leave is diabolical. No money when you're sick for a month? How do you accept this

For dead-end/entry level work, the laws are not great.

Once you get off the ground though, you get most of the same benefits as Europeans, while taking home much more income. Especially in tech, the benefits and pay can be extravagant (Netflix famously had a year of maternity leave). Although you will likely work more time overall.

Keep in mind that generally social media is full of young American people. Once people get into their career, they don't spend much time on doomer social media. It's also socially taboo to not jump on the "conditions are so hard now" bandwagon.

If you can get into the top 40% in America, you will have what you need to live a pretty decent life.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#145

Post by Klayy »

WarmWash wrote: post #144
geek_at wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True we pay for it so we don't have tu subject our own people to the horrible working culture of the US. No maternity leave is diabolical. No money when you're sick for a month? How do you accept this

For dead-end/entry level work, the laws are not great. Once you get off the ground though, you get most of the same benefits as Europeans, while taking home much more income. Especially in tech, the benefits and pay can be extravagant (Netflix famously had a year of maternity leave). Although you will likely work more time overall. Keep in mind that generally social media is full of young American people. Once people…

What you are calling extravagant is the norm in some European countries, even if you don't work for Netflix.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#146

Post by WarmWash »

Klayy wrote: post #145
WarmWash wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For dead-end/entry level work, the laws are not great. Once you get off the ground though, you get most of the same benefits as Europeans, while taking home much more income. Especially in tech, the benefits and pay can be extravagant (Netflix famously had a year of maternity leave). Although you will likely work more time overall. Keep in mind that generally social media is full of young American people. Once people…

What you are calling extravagant is the norm in some European countries, even if you don't work for Netflix.

Europe is great if you don't have very valuable skills, you are pretty much guaranteed at least a decent quality of life.

The US sucks if you don't have very valuable skills, there aren't many guarantees.

But if you do have valuable skills, it's very hard to make a case for living in Europe. Once you reach the top 30-40% of Americans, you're living like the top 10% of Europeans.

That's why the US has been draining EU tech workers for a few decades now. The value prop from the US is much better if you're a strong player.

But I'm also not supposed to be saying any of this, because like a good little medium 6 figure household, I'm supposed to be wearing the mask of "difficult economic times" so as to appear virtuous and sensitive to others.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#147

Post by krageon »

abletonlive wrote: post #84
shimman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the US culture, it's not hard to see entrepreneurship as a societal disease. Let's not act like "entrepreneurship" is necessary at all to develop technology. Western governments simply have no ability to find their own destination as any attempt to get off the US big tech ramp comes with threats to destroy defense treaties, weapons contracts, and tariffs with their major ally. Hardly anything to do with "e…

> Looking at the US culture, it's not hard to see entrepreneurship as a societal disease. It's easy if you're in some nihilistic and cynical echochamber like reddit. For everybody else, entrepreneurship is still quite celebrated and seen as a positive for society.

I think the fact that you can claim this without any apparent sarcasm means you operate in a very specific part of society most people aren't a part of.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#148

Post by martin-t »

hparadiz wrote: post #128
martin-t wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you prove your work was used in any of these models? They admit it themselves. We also know how aggressively they scrape everything they can get their hands on because projects like Anubis[0] exist > And if so what percentage of your work constitutes the model? That should absolutely be quantified, yes. My part is tiny but together with other people whose work was taken without consent, we make the vast majorit…

Sounds like a no.

"They admit it themselves."

"Sounds like a no."

This level of discussion does not belong on HN.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#149

Post by martin-t »

nl wrote: post #130
martin-t wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, you have that right. But it begs the question why you chose (A)GPL instead of a permissive license in the first place. If you are OK with people training and using LLMs on top of your work not giving users the right to inspect and modify, you must have logically been OK with it before. The existence of LLMs or even AI is irrelevant to your position.

Yes, and I generally prefer permissive licenses precisely because of this. Nevertheless, I've also done GPL and AGPL code.

That's my point. You don't care about freedom or user rights and you never did. LLMs don't change that, they just give people like you a way to (for now) legally take without giving back and without respecting the wishes of the people whose work you're building on.

Look at consent in sex and how long it took to make everyone accept it's something you need to have sex with someone. Some places are still not there yet.

I firmly believe using other people's work should require the same level of consent.

Re: European AI. A playbook to own it

#150

Post by abletonlive »

krageon wrote: post #147
abletonlive wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looking at the US culture, it's not hard to see entrepreneurship as a societal disease. It's easy if you're in some nihilistic and cynical echochamber like reddit. For everybody else, entrepreneurship is still quite celebrated and seen as a positive for society.

I think the fact that you can claim this without any apparent sarcasm means you operate in a very specific part of society most people aren't a part of.

I live in the United States where entrepreneurship is a common way of living. I have the stats to back it up too.

Maybe you just live in an echo chamber such as reddit where you believe entrepreneurship means making millions of dollars in the tech industry.

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