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What being ripped off taught me

belief.horse

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Re: What being ripped off taught me

#141

Post by sudobash1 »

dilyevsky wrote: post #136
apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #46

Actually sort of darkly clever– they turned OP into an unwitting investor. Project goes well, he gets paid and they're best buds, and he doesn't even realize he was scammed (by intent). If not, well there's no point suing a failed company.

If you're in California, even if business goes totally kaput and runs out of money company officers are personally liable for any and all unpaid wages. Labor Commission Office will also include a hefty punitive sum to boot.

I don't think this makes a difference for independent contractors.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#142

Post by eckesicle »

k2enemy wrote: post #139
eckesicle wrote: post #21

We’ve also learned this lesson the hard way. These are now the clauses we require in every project we do: - Payment is due X days after receipt of invoice, or immediately after the consultant has addressed any quality issues, whichever is sooner - Late payment shall incur interest at 8% above the BoE base rate and a late fee of 100 GBP as per the UK Late Payment Legislation. Partial payments on invoices shall apply t…

> - Late payment shall incur interest at 8% above the BoE base rate and a late fee of 100 GBP as per the UK Late Payment Legislation. Partial payments on invoices shall apply to late fees, interest, and then principal, in that order. Do you mean 8 percent, or 8 percentage points?

The exact wording in our contracts and the government guidance is “8% plus the Bank of England base rate”.

They mean “percentage points”.

https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-re...

As I understand it, from our lawyer, is that this exact wording is automatically enforceable in UK courts and easiest in the event of a dispute. It’s also generally internationally accepted.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#143

Post by moron4hire »

fmx wrote: post #78
eckesicle wrote: post #21

We’ve also learned this lesson the hard way. These are now the clauses we require in every project we do: - Payment is due X days after receipt of invoice, or immediately after the consultant has addressed any quality issues, whichever is sooner - Late payment shall incur interest at 8% above the BoE base rate and a late fee of 100 GBP as per the UK Late Payment Legislation. Partial payments on invoices shall apply t…

> Ironically, the good clients pay within 2-3 days normally, and the difficult ones are very “long tail”. Why ironically? Isn't that exactly what you'd expect?

I took "good client" to mean, "is easy to work with/communicates well/knows what they want", not just "pays on time". The inverse being, the ones who don't pay on time were already a pain in the ass to work with.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#144

Post by randomNumber7 »

ng12 wrote: post #54

One thing I learned from consulting is if you position yourself as the "fix your mess" guy you have to be very defensive. Ask for more up-front, and bail at the first sign of underpayment. Be pleasantly surprised when a poorly run project is being run by nice, honest people. Prep for the opposite.

It sounds counterintuitive but from my experience it are often nice and (somewhat) honest people. They just came after whoever messed it up horribly in the first place and at some point they came to the conclusion that they need some external help.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#145

Post by DamnInteresting »

rglover wrote: post #16

Never do anything on faith or as a handshake deal. Always ensure you get paid (hint: escrow is kryptonite for weasels). Trust everyone, just not the devil inside them. Also, mandatory: https://creativemornings.com/talks/mike-monteiro--2/1

Back in my freelancer days, I learned this lesson the hard way, and I became strict about payments (half in advance, the other half required to turn over the final work). But when someone I'd known for years had an emergency, and needed their software patched over a weekend, I made an exception and delivered the work in good faith. And then they tried to get out of paying for it. I had to harangue them for months to get the check.

The lesson I learned is that it doesn't matter how long they've been your friend, when it comes time to pay, they may still try to stiff you. The value of your service diminishes infinitely after it has been performed.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#146

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

I don't know what it is about me, but I have a sixth sense for losers who will not pay. There's been a number of times where acquaintences have taken contracts I've turned down (against my advice too) and have not been paid. There's something about slick communicators that just activates my spidey sense.

And TBH, I have also had a few false positives. One contract I did not take (it was for a mix of equity and cash) turned into a 10B+ company, and I would have made enough to retire (again) on it over a 1-year contract. I didn't because the founder who called me just sounded completely clueless and was barraging me with marketing speak instead of explaining what he needed. I was so exhausted from his BS I just decided I didn't need the headache. (This is also a danger of having enough to retire ... you turn down a lot of potentially lucrative work because you just don't think the headaches are worth it).

In the grand scheme of things, other than that one big missed opportunity, I haven't missed too much upside by being so picky. And when I'm counseling colleagues about their unpaid contracts and conflicts, I'm always silently thanking the stars I have the luxury to say no. I know that's a priviledge.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#147

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

close04 wrote: post #42
InMice wrote: post #17

> I missed the month of May with my 2-year-old kid. My wife cared for a 2-year-old alone. The weirdest part to me, receive a call and just get up and go? Priorities? Did you write this blog post from the doghouse?

Reads to me like the author is trying to elicit some empathy. It just sounds like he was just fine leaving his family for a job. Not getting paid couldn’t have factored into that decision.

They work within a niche space, as others have said, they follow where the work is, So they are able to charge more which I hope is able for them to survive in modern economy and be able to give more time to their family.

atleast that's my interpretation of it of how logic might follow if they are working in niche space, many people seem to be applying the logic onto themselves into completely standard situation, but I don't suppose that is the case here.

Hope this helps in genuinely understanding their situation, from my reading/thinking about it.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#148

Post by gavinray »

avoidyc wrote: post #57

[flagged]

I'd say it's almost something of a rite of passage to get taken advantage of if you're young and working in tech startups. Usually this is in the form of abysmally low pay, along with "Sweat Equity":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_equity

Of course, the startup doesn't go anywhere, and your sweat equity never materializes, so you're left with just the pitiful pay.

I went through this in my late teens/early 20's, along with many friends.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#149

Post by michaelt »

InMice wrote: post #17

> I missed the month of May with my 2-year-old kid. My wife cared for a 2-year-old alone. The weirdest part to me, receive a call and just get up and go? Priorities? Did you write this blog post from the doghouse?

I used to have an uncle who did emergency oil well repair. He'd get a call from his boss, then he'd be on the next flight to whatever remote offshore drilling platform or exotic dictatorship had need of his services.

Apparently doing emergency repair work can be extremely well paid.

(His wife was fine with it, but when there's great inconvenience for the family balanced by great pay for the family, you've got to get paid)

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#150

Post by zamadatix »

close04 wrote: post #42
InMice wrote: post #17

> I missed the month of May with my 2-year-old kid. My wife cared for a 2-year-old alone. The weirdest part to me, receive a call and just get up and go? Priorities? Did you write this blog post from the doghouse?

Reads to me like the author is trying to elicit some empathy. It just sounds like he was just fine leaving his family for a job. Not getting paid couldn’t have factored into that decision.

The assumption with taking a contract is it's better than what your other options will be to get the same total income/time worked. Especially for specialized work like this, taking the contract means you can get multiples of the time back in the following months. When you don't get paid you end up without that time back the income was supposed to provide (and you're in 1 months less of savings to boot).
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