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How to get better at guitar

jakeworth.com

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Re: How to get better at guitar

#141

Post by raincole »

jcattle wrote: post #139
Jean-Papoulos wrote: post #136

>When you hear the first guitar note, stop the song, find the note on the guitar, and write it down. OP, you should have mentionned the prerequisite of absolute pitch...

No need for absolute pitch. All you need is relative pitch. You play a note, compare to the note you heard, maybe even play them at the same time. And then change the note till you find the right one.

How do you do that with chords? I know everyone who isn't completely tone deaf can do that with one single note. But when it comes to chords, unless you already know some music theory, aren't there infinite number of combinations you have to try before you find the correct one?

Re: How to get better at guitar

#142

Post by 9rx »

bsder wrote: post #80
jedimastert wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably almost any method is effective at learning guitar, as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing. There are a few pedagogical points here to keep in mind: first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them. Also, different ways of learning have different values in terms of what goals you're aiming to…

> first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them. I'm not convinced for guitar. Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique. As long as you're not injuring yourself, practice and determination pretty much overcomes everything.

> Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique.

The universe didn't offer a manual on how to play guitar, so how are you determining that their technique was bad? Given what you say about them, maybe they actually had the perfect technique?

Re: How to get better at guitar

#143

Post by raincole »

> When you hear the first guitar note, stop the song, find the note on the guitar, and write it down

How do you do that with chords? I know everyone who isn't completely tone deaf can do that with one single note. But when it comes to chords, unless you already know some music theory, aren't there huge number of combinations you have to try before you find the correct one?

Re: How to get better at guitar

#144

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

jrop wrote: post #11

Tommy Emmanuel apparently learned by transrcibing, famously thinking that both the bass line and guitar lines he was hearing were a singular "guitar part". Just by having his expectations (incorrectly) raised, he rose to the occasion and played both parts. I forget where I heard this story -- it's probably either rather famous, or buried in an interview somewhere.

The percussionist Trilok Gurtu has said the same thing about listening to many recordings as he was growing up. He just assumed that all the percussion was played by one person, all at once, and so he figured out ways to do it, even when it was 2 or even 3 people with overdubs.

Re: How to get better at guitar

#145

Post by Hunpeter »

analog31 wrote: post #65
H1Supreme wrote: post #47

Recognizing melodies by ear is a hugely useful skill, but I can't help but think it's going to be nearly impossible to do without a sound foundation in music theory. Tabs are, in large part, paint-by-number. Lots of guitarists out there are only interested in learning a song. Regardless of key, mode, or what the notes actually are. And, tabs satisfy that group by saying: "Play this fret on this string". To write tabs…

This is also one of those things that varies with the individual. When I was a kid taking cello lessons, I learned to play by ear. For classical students, theory doesn't really start until college. I know very little theory, but I've been playing jazz for almost 50 years, and I know hundreds of melodies along with enough of their harmonies to improvise and accompany other players. Many people pick up tunes from the r…

>For classical students, theory doesn't really start until college.

Well, unless, you are studying here in Hungary, for example, where it starts pretty much right away... (though it is a separate class).

Re: How to get better at guitar

#146

Post by niek_pas »

shermantanktop wrote: post #108
crtified wrote: post #21

One truth I've observed from decades of keen hobbyist involvement in guitar music and playing is that a lifetime of music is largely an individual journey. The fact that some players learn by transcribing, while others learn by jamming, and yet others learn by rote theoretical study, or 10-hour practice sessions, etc, is a big part of the variety which results in the wonderfully varied tapestry of music styles and ap…

That’s it. The individual who has a breakthrough often feels compelled to call it a “system” and start telling others about it. The great advice someone has is just what worked for them. It will probably work for others, especially if it repeats common advice, but it won’t work for everyone.

There’s also a causal bias here.

If I practice guitar for 6 hours a day (like John Petrucci in his teenage years) while always wearing an orange hat, I’ll get pretty damn good at the guitar in a few years. I can then spread the word to everyone that the best way to learn the guitar is to always wear an orange hat.

As with the dangers of ‘productivity porn’, ultimately what matters most is putting in the hours.

Re: How to get better at guitar

#148

Post by KaiserPro »

raincole wrote: post #141
jcattle wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for absolute pitch. All you need is relative pitch. You play a note, compare to the note you heard, maybe even play them at the same time. And then change the note till you find the right one.

How do you do that with chords? I know everyone who isn't completely tone deaf can do that with one single note. But when it comes to chords, unless you already know some music theory, aren't there infinite number of combinations you have to try before you find the correct one?

> infinite number of combinations you have to try before you find the correct one?

Kinda, but on Guitar, most pop songs are major/minor, possible sevenths. I think this post is aimed at someone who can read tab, but isn't "good" (what ever that means) so they should have an understanding of basic chord shapes.

The post does imply that this only really works if you can comfortably read tab, which is probably 6month-2 years of work (part time)

Re: How to get better at guitar

#149

Post by KaiserPro »

H1Supreme wrote: post #47

Recognizing melodies by ear is a hugely useful skill, but I can't help but think it's going to be nearly impossible to do without a sound foundation in music theory. Tabs are, in large part, paint-by-number. Lots of guitarists out there are only interested in learning a song. Regardless of key, mode, or what the notes actually are. And, tabs satisfy that group by saying: "Play this fret on this string". To write tabs…

> you haven't played enough to recognize the difference

I think the key bit here is that this is aimed at someone who is proficient, but not "good" ie can play tab, but not much else.

I think its perfectly possible to transcribe if you don't "know" musical theory, but for guitar, you should need to know chord shapes.

The key or mode is probably not actually that important, because you are transcribing rather then improvising. Obviously it will reduce the search space considerably if you do know what key/mode its in.

But you'd be surprised at how much musical theory is innate, or at lease learnt through listening.

Re: How to get better at guitar

#150

Post by newdee »

9rx wrote: post #142
bsder wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them. I'm not convinced for guitar. Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique. As long as you're not injuring yourself, practice and determination pretty much overcomes everything.

> Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique. The universe didn't offer a manual on how to play guitar, so how are you determining that their technique was bad? Given what you say about them, maybe they actually had the perfect technique?

The universe didn’t offer a manual, but mankind has largely arrived at some orthodoxy for the most efficient and ergonomic ways to fret, bend, pluck, tap, strum, etc. In many cases, these are objectively better techniques to use once mastered, but they’re not the only way.
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