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Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

politico.eu

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Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#141

Post by TacticalCoder »

pjc50 wrote: post #21

Specifically, this is another Parliament vs Commission issue. The Commission loves to have little deals away from the public where everything is quietly smoothed over, while the Parliament is trying to build popular legitimacy.

> The Commission loves to have little deals away from the public where everything is quietly smoothed over ...

And there's money spent lobbying in Brussels (where the EU Commission is) than lobbying in the entire US.

And corrupt eurocrats are known to be very cheap whores.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#142

Post by mikkupikku »

whateverboat wrote: post #84
mikkupikku wrote: post #58

After decades of trying and broadly failing to regulate American tech corps, at what point does the EU admit that leveling fines against Meta will never stop Meta from being Meta, that American megacorps are essentially ungovernable in Europe (or elsewhere for that matter) and the best course of action is to ban and block them in Europe? Just more fines. Bigger fines, surely this will work eventually... It's been 20…

At some point, EU needs to build an alternative to those corps and that will never happen as long as they keep holding on to their precious pearl clutching regional and linguistic issues. EU needed to be a single country like 10 years ago.

Or, they should not globo-homogenize themselves, wiping out their cultures in the process (are you even human? How can you so casually recommend the eradication of Europe's varied cultures?), but should instead ban a handful of American corps which would then create market space for small local competitors.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#143

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #108
pjc50 wrote: post #21

Specifically, this is another Parliament vs Commission issue. The Commission loves to have little deals away from the public where everything is quietly smoothed over, while the Parliament is trying to build popular legitimacy.

The EU should abandon the stupid Commission structure and have a real Parliament that can actually draft legislation. The current one can just vote down legislation drafted by the Commission.

[deleted]

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#144

Post by M95D »

rayiner wrote: post #108
pjc50 wrote: post #21

Specifically, this is another Parliament vs Commission issue. The Commission loves to have little deals away from the public where everything is quietly smoothed over, while the Parliament is trying to build popular legitimacy.

The EU should abandon the stupid Commission structure and have a real Parliament that can actually draft legislation. The current one can just vote down legislation drafted by the Commission.

NO! Laws should be drafted by lawyers and professionals in those fields. An election would select lawmakers by popularity contest. Can't expect good laws from tht kind of people.

What's needed is accountability for drafted laws and removal of those who repeatedly draft laws rejected by parliament.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#145

Post by defrost »

M95D wrote: post #144
rayiner wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU should abandon the stupid Commission structure and have a real Parliament that can actually draft legislation. The current one can just vote down legislation drafted by the Commission.

NO! Laws should be drafted by lawyers and professionals in those fields. An election would select lawmakers by popularity contest. Can't expect good laws from tht kind of people. What's needed is accountability for drafted laws and removal of those who repeatedly draft laws rejected by parliament.

> and removal of those who repeatedly draft laws rejected by parliament.

While I believe I understand where you are coming from, this seems unduly broad and harsh.

What limit on time, number of attempts, etc. whould we apriori in advance place on laws like equality, climate monitoring, abortion rights, etc. before the gate is dropped on any more of that kind of thing?

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#147

Post by rayiner »

M95D wrote: post #144
rayiner wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU should abandon the stupid Commission structure and have a real Parliament that can actually draft legislation. The current one can just vote down legislation drafted by the Commission.

NO! Laws should be drafted by lawyers and professionals in those fields. An election would select lawmakers by popularity contest. Can't expect good laws from tht kind of people. What's needed is accountability for drafted laws and removal of those who repeatedly draft laws rejected by parliament.

> An election would select lawmakers by popularity contest

That’s democracy.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#148

Post by btasker »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #134
tokai wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the EU in general (not everyone of course) leans more in the realm of letting the government take care of everything. Your understanding of business in EU countries seems to be make-believe and personal fantasy.

You can not like the statement, and call it whatever you like, however, it is objectively true. You are far more likely to find a government regulation on a US business/product than you are to find any EU-based product used widely in the United States. That is the main point I was making and it is true by any objective measure. There is far more leverage with the country exporting goods/services globally then there i…

> than you are to find any EU-based product used widely in the United States.

Spotify?

If you don't mind including companies that offer multiple things: Accenture, Amadeus, Capgemini, Mistral, SAP

I'm also assuming there that you're only referring to tech products and services, otherwise you probably want to look at the long, long, long list of pharmaceuticals, cars and other products.

I think the issue is more that you don't have a good understanding of which products and services aren't American.

> There is far more leverage with the country exporting goods

True leverage comes from import, not export of goods and materials. The thing that grows GDP is buying materials cheaper from elsewhere, turning them into something and selling on at a healthy margin (whether domestic or as an export).

> then nanny-stating them into a form they think is better.

I'm no fan of nanny-stating, but I don't think that that's the case here.

There certainly are examples of that, but then the ones that I can think of (age verification in particular) are also getting pushed hard in the US. In fact, by all accounts, a lot of that pushing is being driven/funded by Meta

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#149

Post by M95D »

defrost wrote: post #145
M95D wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO! Laws should be drafted by lawyers and professionals in those fields. An election would select lawmakers by popularity contest. Can't expect good laws from tht kind of people. What's needed is accountability for drafted laws and removal of those who repeatedly draft laws rejected by parliament.

> and removal of those who repeatedly draft laws rejected by parliament. While I believe I understand where you are coming from, this seems unduly broad and harsh. What limit on time, number of attempts, etc. whould we apriori in advance place on laws like equality, climate monitoring, abortion rights, etc. before the gate is dropped on any more of that kind of thing?

Limits should not be placed on laws, but on law authors. Each one with his own count of rejected laws. Like this: author signs some drafts, drafts go to parliament, N drafts rejected -> author dismissed from Eu commision. It could even be a ratio of adopted laws vs. rejected laws. Drop below threshold -> dismissed.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#150

Post by salawat »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #117
benoau wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is an incentive lawmakers could offer that is worth more to Apple than monopolizing fees and subverting competition, there is practically no limits they will go to to preserve that status quo around the world. The only time they have eagerly complied with anything relating to this is when Judge YGR gave them this ultimatum, they approved Fortnite a full day early once someone had to be personally…

That seems like a better model than stupefying fines against the corporate entity then. Forget about billion dollar fines, just give them a slap on the wrist while telling them explicitly what they have to stop doing, but then if they keep doing it the executives are personally held in contempt. It also solves the perverse incentive of "fine the foreign companies as a revenue generation method" because the result is…

Nope. All that does is create a rash of execs/decisionmakers who become sacrificial fixtures who absolutely do not travel to the jurisdiction in question, thusly handily sidestepping the accountability. It has to be fines. At the end of the day, it's going to become a political sticking point one way or another if we're going to share and coexist on the same planet.
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