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r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

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Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#141

Post by em-bee »

southerntofu wrote: post #135
yoz-y wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have misinterpreted my comment. But I concede that I should have written it more clearly. I divide anti-AI people into two groups. Those who don’t like AI because of what it is, and those who don’t like it because of its impact on society. Naturally there is an overlap. Luddites were not opposed to the technology. So the comparison to them is only correct for the latter group. Not talking about LLMs on a forum is…

Sorry for misinterpreting your original comment. I'm not really convinced there's people who don't like AI "because of what it is". I mean, because of what it is, beyond any social/political considerations. The only case i know of that is when there was an open letter with Sam Altman and other AI investors calling out the existential danger of AI, which in my view was a way to divert the debate from political questio…

really? is it so hard to believe that people dislike AI because it is unreliable, can't be trusted, changes how we work with code, takes the fun out of coding?

i am not worried about social consequences. society can adapt.

i am also not worried about energy use. we have endless clean energy if we can figure out how to use it.

yes, i am worried about society choosing the wrong adaption. that is, i believe we should train everyone to be teachers, doctors scientists, and artists. the stuff that AI should not be doing. but i am not worried about using AI for automation, putting people out of jobs. if we give them the opportunity to learn new jobs and,

IF, AND ONLY IF, we get AI to do it's work with 100% reliability and accuracy.

only then AI will be useful. i have tons of software projects that i'd like to get done. but i can't trust AI to do them for me, because i would spend even more time to verify the results than i would to code it myself.

so yeah, i absolutely don't like AI for what it is, a tool with limited uses that requires me to work in a way i don't want, if i want to benefit from it.

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#142

Post by Deeds67 »

59nadir wrote: post #139
Deeds67 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I write it myself? I use Claude code 12 hours a day and I'm really confident with want I'm able to build with it. I use it at work with incredible results. Spec driven development with harnessing is super powerful, I'll never be writing large features hy hand again. Look at what I'm able to achieve in my free time after work https://opennoodle.de Would've never had the time without my army of agents

Heh, fair enough. To me this comes off as "I'm unable to write it myself [possibly because I've outsourced my thinking too much]" , to be honest, but I'm not going to argue; you're the one who presumably wants this code to end up in that repository. I wouldn't really consider (what is likely) sub-1kloc a "large feature", but to each their own.

I don't want it to end up in that repo anymore, hence the fork. I've got a growing community of people who have been eagerly awaiting this feature and a ton more that I built.

I definitely could write this by hand - the stuff I built in the last 10 years before LLMs was more complex than this - but theres no way I'm spending all my free time to slowly craft something if I can just use AI and get the same results much faster

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#143

Post by JKCalhoun »

pscanf wrote: post #40

I gave up on r/programming after an article I wrote (thoughtfully, without AI, even though the content might not have been super interesting) got mod-slapped with a stickied comment "This content is low quality, stolen, blogspam, or clearly AI generated". Ironically, that comment was added three months after I posted the article, when it was nowhere near the front page anymore, in a clearly automated and AI-driven re…

Moderators on a power trip? Fuck 'em.

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#144

Post by JKCalhoun »

yoz-y wrote: post #61

Good decision. AI programming is fundamentally different from programming and as such the discussions merit to have separate forums. If r/programming wants to be the one solely focusing on programming then power to them. Discussing both in combination also makes sense, but the value of reddit is having a subreddit for anything and “just programming” should be on the list.

Sure, but if r/programming can't include the combination/hybrid then the whole subreddit is likely doomed to obsolescence.

That genie's not going back into the lamp.

(Heck, I've leaned on LLMs to generate damned SwiftUI code for me.)

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#145

Post by phpnode »

yoz-y wrote: post #131
redox99 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI programming is fundamentally different from programming It's really not. Maybe vibecoding, in its original definition (not looking at generated code) is fundamentally different. But most people are not vibe coding outside of pet projects, at least yet.

Hopefully this does not devolve into ‘nuh-uh’-‘it is too’ but I disagree. Even putting aside the AI engineering part where you use a model as a brick in your program. Classic programming is based on assumption that there is a formal strict input language. When programming I think in that language, I hold the data structures and connections in my head. When debugging I have intuition on what is going on because I know…

This is the same argument that people used to have against compilers

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#146

Post by archagon »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #144
yoz-y wrote: post #61

Good decision. AI programming is fundamentally different from programming and as such the discussions merit to have separate forums. If r/programming wants to be the one solely focusing on programming then power to them. Discussing both in combination also makes sense, but the value of reddit is having a subreddit for anything and “just programming” should be on the list.

Sure, but if r/programming can't include the combination/hybrid then the whole subreddit is likely doomed to obsolescence. That genie's not going back into the lamp. (Heck, I've leaned on LLMs to generate damned SwiftUI code for me.)

I mean, no, why would it be? There is so, so much to talk about in programming other than AI. Meanwhile, the current HN front page feels like 90% LLM spam: the complete antithesis of what I used to come here for.

I personally can’t wait for no-ai communities to proliferate.

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#147

Post by moralestapia »

calf wrote: post #26
moralestapia wrote: post #13

People still use Reddit?

What do you recommend instead? Reddit is like reading YouTube comments nowadays, I miss when discussions were literate and informed.

I have been discovering/enjoying the 'smol' web, unironically.

Hmm, there's a site I wanted to share with you but I can't find it atm., it's a directory of personal websites sorted by topic. It pops in here from time to time.

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#148

Post by archagon »

phpnode wrote: post #145
yoz-y wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully this does not devolve into ‘nuh-uh’-‘it is too’ but I disagree. Even putting aside the AI engineering part where you use a model as a brick in your program. Classic programming is based on assumption that there is a formal strict input language. When programming I think in that language, I hold the data structures and connections in my head. When debugging I have intuition on what is going on because I know…

This is the same argument that people used to have against compilers

Compilers are an abstraction. AI coding is not an abstraction by any reasonable definition.

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#149

Post by JuniperMesos »

pscanf wrote: post #40

I gave up on r/programming after an article I wrote (thoughtfully, without AI, even though the content might not have been super interesting) got mod-slapped with a stickied comment "This content is low quality, stolen, blogspam, or clearly AI generated". Ironically, that comment was added three months after I posted the article, when it was nowhere near the front page anymore, in a clearly automated and AI-driven re…

Reddit is a low-quality platform, the sorts of people who would be interested in moderating a popular subreddit like r/programming are even less fit to be moderators than the average moderator is. It would be better if people completely stopped using the platform.

Re: r/programming bans all discussion of LLM programming

#150

Post by phpnode »

archagon wrote: post #148
phpnode wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same argument that people used to have against compilers

Compilers are an abstraction. AI coding is not an abstraction by any reasonable definition.

You're only thinking that because we're mostly still at the imperative, REPL stage.

We're telling them what to do in a loop. Instead we should be declaring what we want to be true.

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