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You are not your job

jry.io

141–150 of 443 posts

Re: You are not your job

#141
post #26

>My technical skills are being disrupted by machines - that's fine I'll go do other things. [links to long bike trip] Ok that's cool and all but many of us have bills to pay. Bike trips don't pay the bills. Software people have been economically advantaged up until now that they can go and do stuff like that.

Within a few years I think UBI or UBS will be required for people to continue living, in which case basic needs (bills) won't be a concern. There's just no way for us to transition fast enough to avoid high unemployment as AI replaces large swaths of jobs. I do worry about the ~10 year transition it will take for societal governments to react.

Why would the people with control of things go out of their way to keep the rest of us alive via UBI?

I get your point but what about a step before that - since when is that anyone's goal? From a sociopathic leader perspective, vast populations are only great for armies and tech has surpassed the need for raw manpower at that scale (and the AI you fear would make militaries require even fewer people).

In your AI scenario is it more likely the ruling class gives everyone free living standard or just lets like 40% of the population die? If all the leaders get together this is the ideal outcome for them -- vast power and control without enough civilians to rise up, climate change becomes easy to reverse with vastly lower power and food needs, and reduced threat of global war because nobody has an occupying size army anymore. This is like the new version of "mutually assured destruction" as a strategy for global peace. I can't speak for the world but I can imagine some of the twisted folks currently in power in the US seeing this route as their destiny and simply them doing the best thing for humanity as a whole -- longtermists are in, nazis know a final solution when they see one, and Christians are honored to have the duty of bringing forth the second coming.

Re: You are not your job

#143
post #97

I also took the route of finding a new hobby (biking, all things bike mechanics, even politics) but of course it's not paying any of my bills. That's the point. While I helped making other people very rich, I never owned shares or got a bonus after an exit.

"X. Employee, 19xx-20xx. Beloved co-worker and technical specialist. Sacrificed health and happiness to deliver value to shareholders."

Well. Nobody remembers me already so I doubt they will even care when a truck hits me on my bike.

Re: You are not your job

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t valuable to markets, but like I have neighbors who are treasured by the community and genuinely bring joy to everyone. But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing.

> But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing. Efficiency is the metric of nature. Thinking about human life in any other terms than input and output is objectively a luxury, afforded only to societies with surplus resources. Calling it "framing" feels a little disingen…

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Re: You are not your job

#145

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Isn't this exactly Marx's criticism of capitalism through the theory of alienation? Human relationships get mediated and hidden as relationships between commodities and money.

Probably a valid criticism. Of course coming up with a better alternative is always where the devil's at.

Re: You are not your job

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t valuable to markets, but like I have neighbors who are treasured by the community and genuinely bring joy to everyone. But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing.

True as well. I've had similar communal experiences where you get a taste of the old way, the way humans would have operated when we lived in tribes. And on that level I think we are capable of valuing each other as beings - the instinct to look out for each other kicks in. But this modern society we live in... it's just not structured that way anymore. Most of us live in little silos now: our job and our atomic fami…

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Re: You are not your job

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your average person doesn't know how to grow their own food And, you know the sad part? A lot of places don't allow you to even try to learn. For example, my current place that I rent has a yard (it's a nice little trailer home), but I'm not allowed to have a garden. They even chopped down the nice tree that was growing in the yard when I first moved in. Oh, I can certainly try to grow stuff inside in containers, b…

To be fair, growing your own food is incredibly inefficient. Agriculture is one of the places where economies of scale shine very very brightly.

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Re: You are not your job

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t valuable to markets, but like I have neighbors who are treasured by the community and genuinely bring joy to everyone. But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing.

True as well. I've had similar communal experiences where you get a taste of the old way, the way humans would have operated when we lived in tribes. And on that level I think we are capable of valuing each other as beings - the instinct to look out for each other kicks in. But this modern society we live in... it's just not structured that way anymore. Most of us live in little silos now: our job and our atomic fami…

Ha! I grew up in a rural area, "communal" if you may. And leaving that hellhole of dishonesty and depression was one of the most important moves in my life. I guess it really depends on how you deal with communal life and how much you are able to ignore people who think they have the right to comment your lifestyle/situation. Well, maybe I am too harsh, and this phenomenon isn't obvious to non-disabled people. But the amount of patronisation I usually get in communal situations makes me LOVE my urban life.

Re: You are not your job

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True as well. I've had similar communal experiences where you get a taste of the old way, the way humans would have operated when we lived in tribes. And on that level I think we are capable of valuing each other as beings - the instinct to look out for each other kicks in. But this modern society we live in... it's just not structured that way anymore. Most of us live in little silos now: our job and our atomic fami…

> Your average person doesn't know how to grow their own food And, you know the sad part? A lot of places don't allow you to even try to learn. For example, my current place that I rent has a yard (it's a nice little trailer home), but I'm not allowed to have a garden. They even chopped down the nice tree that was growing in the yard when I first moved in. Oh, I can certainly try to grow stuff inside in containers, b…

You can't afford a $10 plastic container for growing plants? If that is true (which I doubt), I would be willing to drop you a few bucks via PayPal.

Re: You are not your job

#150
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within a few years I think UBI or UBS will be required for people to continue living, in which case basic needs (bills) won't be a concern. There's just no way for us to transition fast enough to avoid high unemployment as AI replaces large swaths of jobs. I do worry about the ~10 year transition it will take for societal governments to react.

UBI/UBS requires a very solidaric community. But the current situation (in Germany) is not about finding any job but taking a low paid, hard working or even dangerous job (nursing service, shifter, even soldier, public sector). UBI makes it even harder to find people for that kind of jobs. Not paying any social benefits and increasing the pressure on the unemployed to take these jobs is much more interesting for ever…

A lot, I'd say even most people in Germanys long term unemployment scheme which are not already working part time (Aufstocker) have severe mental and physical health problems. More pressure isn't going to help those people but it's the current Government's shtick.

I'd say UBI would make it easier to find people working in demanding jobs because you could to them part time, so they don't wear you down as much. It's much easier to work as a nurse for 20 hours a week.

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