Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 308 posts

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#141

Post by nxm »

roryobrien wrote: post #15
jrjeksjd8d wrote: post #3

I finally put my money where my mouth is and bought a PHEV. In the past month I've done all my errands around town exclusively on battery power (30-40 miles per charge) from a home L1 charger. I know EV purists will complain about the complexity of maintaining the gas engine, but this hits the perfect sweet spot for me - it doesn't weigh a million tons, it cost under 40k new, and the one weekend a month when I need t…

PHEV is the absolute way to go. Next car is 100% going to be this. I rented two EV's and had serious stress about charging in locations I wasn't familiar with. All the different plug types and speeds was also not helpful. PHEV is a great gateway into full EV.

PHEV are too expensive due to a large battery and ICE onboard. Mild hybrid is the way to go

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#142

Post by Pxtl »

louwrentius wrote: post #47
jrjeksjd8d wrote: post #3

I finally put my money where my mouth is and bought a PHEV. In the past month I've done all my errands around town exclusively on battery power (30-40 miles per charge) from a home L1 charger. I know EV purists will complain about the complexity of maintaining the gas engine, but this hits the perfect sweet spot for me - it doesn't weigh a million tons, it cost under 40k new, and the one weekend a month when I need t…

I still feel that PHEVs combine the worst parts of both worlds. The battery of a PHEV is relatively small and will be strained much more (as compared to an EV), especially if you drive a lot in EV modus. PHEV batteries tend to wear out faster for this reason. This drives up cost of ownership. Then you still have the maintenance / cost of the ICE drivetrain. It does not make sense to me. I feel that a lot of people bu…

Imho PHEVs were the right tool for the job before 2020 or so. The cost of batteries was so high and the lack of standardization on charging tech was too tedious. I bought a Prius Prime in 2019 and I absolutely regretted not getting a PHEV sooner. Governments should've been pushing those harder.

But the day of the PHEV has come and gone. The massive price gap between PHEV and BEV is now negligible, and the charging experience is so much better now.

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#143

Post by phil21 »

Pxtl wrote: post #122
cogman10 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Markets are now forecasting oil prices will stay above $100 a barrel for multiple years It'll never go below $100 a barrel. It went bellow $100 a barrel for the last few years because as US shale processing came online, opec decided to also keep production high which cut oil prices from $100/barrel to ~$50/barrel where it's roughly stayed for the last decade. There's not another "new way to extract oil for cheap" t…

I think that's the important distinction. > Israel and Iran are both destroying oil extraction and processing facilities in the gulf region This isn't like Katrina where oil infrastructure was being temporarily evacuated, shut down, and taking some water and wind damage. The oil infrastructure is being blown to smithereens. And not just pumps that are sucking oil out of a hole in the ground. Refineries. Big expensive…

> Stuff we don't even bother to build in progressive parts of the world because the combination of environmental regulations and concerns about climate change mean it's possible they'll never pay off their massive construction costs.

Ignoring pollution and externalities for the sake of argument this is what is very interesting to me. It’s not clear that the capital markets if left to their own devices would even invest in rebuilding these to begin with due to concerns about being paid back.

The oil industry has went from growth based investments to capturing returns on current deployed infrastructure over the past decade or so. Only very limited and calculated capital is being deployed in this sector these days.

It will certainly be interesting to watch. I’m certain those countries will rebuild via government funds, but I’m wondering how profitable that will end up actually being given how expensive that’s become to build, the insane construct lead times these days, and the overall trend in oil demand. Natural gas is even more interesting since it’s firmly directly linked to renewable energy deployment. Gas usage goes up as we deploy more solar worldwide, at least in the short term.

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#144

Post by nobodyandproud »

ambicapter wrote: post #109
cogman10 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this will probably make some people very rich yes > has the potential to be good for parts of the us energy sector. No way this is good for anyone other than oil producers. The only potential positive it'll have on the US energy and shipping sectors is this is going to put even more pressure on adopting renewables as fossil fuel cost spikes.

Well then that's good for the US renewable energy sector, no?

No, because the US has fallen so far behind in just 10 years.

It’s not the knowledge and tech, but manufacturing-of and at-scale-use of renewables that matters here.

We can’t just-in-time install infrastructure a across the entire country in a matter of weeks or months.

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#145

Post by tlogan »

decimalenough wrote: post #36
tlogan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with many of these EVs is that they were way too expensive. The main reason companies were producing them is due to regulatory requirements and how emissions standards are calculated, not necessarily because wanted to sell these EVs. What we really need are incentives for companies to build more affordable EVs. California could play a role here, but given the strong opinions we have about Elon Musk, nothi…

China and increasingly India are building very affordable EVs. You can get this guy for $7700, or full-featured models from $10,000: https://driveauthority.com/cheapest-ev-car-in-china/ All you really need is a political snap of the fingers to remove tariffs, so they can start selling them in the US. Of course, there is absolutely no way this will happen with the current administration.

I 100% understand that nothing will be done on the federal level. But california is big enough to make things moving without any federal level law.

For example, what about:

- no sales taxes on new EV sales

- free registration for 5 years

- free bridge tolls for 5 years

That might convince some of these companies to start making EVs again.

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#146

Post by mikestew »

macintux wrote: post #123
mikestew wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more interested in EVs if they didn't come with significant privacy and complexity trade-offs. You're going to be really disappointed when you go to look at new ICE vehicles. This "EVs are a privacy nightmare!" trope needs to die, all cars do that now. I don't want a door handle that can't open in an emergency. Only one car manufacturer to my knowledge has that problem, just don't buy one of those. Again, noth…

I understand modern vehicles are like that, hence my complaint about my current one. But, by definition, most EVs are modern. That's not true of ICE vehicles, hence the tradeoffs.

Fair enough, point taken.

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#147

Post by rob74 »

ripvanwinkle wrote: post #107
michaelteter wrote: post #58

If one removed the country names and just looked at where investment (focus, planning, and money) was, we would see two greatly different pictures. One country is disincentivizing or even blocking renewable energy production, rolling back climate protection measures, trying to revitalize the coal industry, slashing investment in scientific research of all kinds, demonizing higher education, and spending vast and rapi…

I'd say it's a closer race and the end is not a foregone conclusion yet. That one country currently exhibiting some very troubling tendencies also has more robust self-healing mechanisms in the form of democracy. It has gone off course in the past too but then found its way back. That said, those self-healing mechanisms are under attack as well so there is at least some suspense in the long term outcome

I'd love to share your optimism and trust in that country-that-shall-not-be-named's self-healing mechanisms, but its system is already centuries old and based on a sort of "gentleman's agreement" that each of the powers in the state will respect the others. To make things worse, since WW2, the executive has amassed more and more power which a sufficiently unscrupulous president can use to start an authoritarian takeover. Currently, the only hope I see is that enough people are fond enough of their democracy (even if only because that's what they grew up with) to stand up for it when push comes to shove...

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#148

Post by sam345 »

tlogan wrote: post #27
rtkwe wrote: post #6

It's funny to see these gas prices spike as companies are announcing they're killing their EV models here in the US.

The problem with many of these EVs is that they were way too expensive. The main reason companies were producing them is due to regulatory requirements and how emissions standards are calculated, not necessarily because wanted to sell these EVs. What we really need are incentives for companies to build more affordable EVs. California could play a role here, but given the strong opinions we have about Elon Musk, nothi…

Confused about this comment. Are you talking about government subsidies and tax incentives? Haven't companies and consumers already been given these incentives? Now that they're drawing down, it's obvious there's a limited market. What needs to happen is real economic demands need to make the market not created ones. Then prices will come down and efficiencies will increase .

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#149

Post by eqvinox »

I'm in Shenzhen currently. Do you know how quiet the city is, even during rush hour? It's amazing. All because almost every car is electric. Even the damn scooters. It'd actually be enjoyable to be outdoor in downtown if they fixed the air pollution… (some of which of course powers these cars… for now.)

Re: BYD is seeing a flood of new EV buyers

#150

Post by nxm »

emestifs wrote: post #22
rtkwe wrote: post #6

It's funny to see these gas prices spike as companies are announcing they're killing their EV models here in the US.

I thought the same thing. Incredibly short term thinking at the corporate and government level to flip flop. Meanwhile Norway is now 97% EV sales and covered in chargers north to south. Not to mention China's fierce EV market domestically.

Norway is an exceptionally rich country due to oil with huge incentives towards EVs. Don’t extrapolate
Post reply on HN