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Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

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Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#141
post #74
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure. Our big org, banned MCPs because they are unsafe, and they have no way to enforce only certain MCPs (in github copilot).

Isn’t it possible to proxy LLM communication and strip out unwanted MCP tool calls from conversations? I mean if you’re going to ban MCPs, you’re probably banning any CLI tooling too, right?

Nope, random MCP server where no one looks into its code is a bit more unsafe then a command you see (and can approve) executed in shell you control. In case of MCP it can do antything, and you don't see it.

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#142
post #131
post #44

One of the MCP Core Maintainers here, so take this with a boulder of salt if you're skeptical of my biases. The debate around "MCP vs. CLI" is somewhat pointless to me personally. Use whatever gets the job done. MCP is much more than just tool calling - it also happens to provide a set of consistent rails for an agent to follow. Besides, we as developers often forget that the things we build are also consumed by non-…

> modern MCP clients do smart tool search that obviates the entire "I am sending the full list of tools back and forth" mode of operation This has always surprised me as this always comes up in MCP discussions. To me, it just seem like a matter of updating the protocol to not have that context hungry behaviour. Doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem technically. Glad you say it has already been addressed. Was th…

Anthropic solved this problem like 3 AI years ago: https://www.anthropic.com/engineering/code-execution-with-mc...

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#143
post #44

One of the MCP Core Maintainers here, so take this with a boulder of salt if you're skeptical of my biases. The debate around "MCP vs. CLI" is somewhat pointless to me personally. Use whatever gets the job done. MCP is much more than just tool calling - it also happens to provide a set of consistent rails for an agent to follow. Besides, we as developers often forget that the things we build are also consumed by non-…

Fully agree.

If you don't change your approach but just use CLI "intead of" MCP, you'll end up with a new spin on the same problems. The guardrails MCP provides (identity, entitlement, multi-principal trust boundaries) still need to exist somewhere.

https://forestmars.substack.com/p/twilight-of-the-mcp-idols

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which models?

Most recently https://lmstudio.ai/models/qwen/qwen3.5-9b

Thanks! I've been playing with some of the qwen models via openrouter as well.. I'll have to give 9b a go at some point, I've been mostly playing with 27b and coder-next up till now.

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#145
post #44

One of the MCP Core Maintainers here, so take this with a boulder of salt if you're skeptical of my biases. The debate around "MCP vs. CLI" is somewhat pointless to me personally. Use whatever gets the job done. MCP is much more than just tool calling - it also happens to provide a set of consistent rails for an agent to follow. Besides, we as developers often forget that the things we build are also consumed by non-…

Screw MCP. It’s not even a protocol. It’s a strongly worded suggestion at best.

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#146

The industry is talking in circles here. All you need is "composability". UNIX solved this with files and pipes for data, and processes for compute. AI agents are solving this this with sub-agents for data, and "code execution" for compute. The UNIX approach is both technically correct and elegant, and what I strongly favor too. The agent + MCP approach is getting there. But not every harness has sub-agents, or their…

What's interesting to me is that while it was obvious to all of us who came to think in the Unix Way, that insofar as composability, usage discoverability, and gobs of documentation in posts and man pages that are hugely represented in training corpora for LLMs, that the CLI is a great fit for LLM tool use, it seems only a recent trend to acknowledge this (and also the next hype wave, perhaps.)

Also interesting that while the big vendors are following this trend and are now trying to take a lead in it, they still suggest things like "but use a JSON schema" (the linked article does a bit of the same - acknowledging that incremental learning via `--help` is useful AND can be token-conserving (exception being that if they already "know" the correct pattern, they wouldn't need to use tokens to learn it, so there is a potential trade-off), they are also suggesting that LLMs would prefer to receive argument knowledge in json rather than in plain language, even though the entire point of an LLM is for understand and create plain language. Seemed dubious to me, and a part of me wondered if that advice may be nonsense motivated by desire to sell more token use. I'm only partially kidding and I'm still dubious of the efficacy.

* Here's a TL;DR for anyone who wants to skip the rest of this long message: I ran an LLM CLI eval in the form of a constructed CTF. Results and methodology are in the two links in the section linked: https://github.com/scottvr/jelp?tab=readme-ov-file#what-else

Anyhow... I had been experimenting with the idea of having --help output json when used by a machine, and came up with a simple module that exposes `--help` content as json, simply by adding a `--jelp` argument to any tool that already uses argparse.

In the process, I started testing, to see if all this extra machine-readable content actually improved performance, what it did to token use, etc. While I was building out test, trying to settle on legitimate and fair ways to come to valid conclusions, I learned of the OpenCLI schema draft, so I altered my `jelp` output to fit that schema, and set about documenting the things I found lacking from the schema draft, meanwhile settling to include these arg-related items as metadata in the output.

I'll get to the point. I just finished cleaning the output up enough to put it in a public repo, because my intent is to share my findings with the OpemCLI folks, in hopes that they'll consider the gaps in their schema compared to what's commonly in use, but at the same time, what came as a secondary thought in service of this little tool I called "jelp", is a benchmarking harness (and the first publishable results from it), the to me, are quite interesting and I would be happy if others found it to be and added to the existing test results with additional runs, models, or ideas for the harness, or criticism about the validity of the method, etc.

The evaluation harness uses constructed CLI fixtures arranged as little CLI CTF's, where the LLMs demonstrate their ability to use an unknown CLI be capturing a "flag" that they'll need to discover by using the usage help, and a trail of learned arguments.

My findings at first confirmed my intuitions, which was disappointing but unsurprising. When testing with GPT-4.1-mini, no manner of forcing them to receive info about the CLI via json was more effective than just letting them use the human-friendly plain English output of --help, and in all cases the JSON versions burned more tokens. I was able to elicit better performance by some measurements from 5.1-mini, but again the tradeoff was higher token burn.

I'll link straight to the part of the README that shows one table of results, and contains links to the LLM CLI CTF part of the repo, as well as the generated report after the phase-1 runs; all the code to reproduce or run your own variation is there (as well as the code for the jelp module, if there is any interest, but it's the CLI CTF eval that I expect is more interesting to most.)

https://github.com/scottvr/jelp?tab=readme-ov-file#what-else

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#147
"You'll end up with something like MCP once you introduce enterprise users" - yeah. The token efficiency debate is a single-developer optimization. The moment you introduce teams or compliance requirements, the question shifts to who manages the credentials.

With CLI, it's your machine, your keys. With direct API calls, keys live wherever the agent runs. Both work until a contractor leaves and their laptop still has active keys for your repos, your internal docs, and your CRM.

Remote MCP over streamable HTTP gives you a centralized auth layer. One SSO integration, one revocation point, one audit trail.

I wrote about this angle here: https://dev.to/dennistraub/missing-from-the-mcp-debate-who-h...

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#148
post #147

"You'll end up with something like MCP once you introduce enterprise users" - yeah. The token efficiency debate is a single-developer optimization. The moment you introduce teams or compliance requirements, the question shifts to who manages the credentials. With CLI, it's your machine, your keys. With direct API calls, keys live wherever the agent runs. Both work until a contractor leaves and their laptop still has…

[dead]

Re: Apideck CLI – An AI-agent interface with much lower context consumption than MCP

#149
I like that everyone keeps separating "capability" from "authority" because they get conflated in a lot of agent-centered tooling.

CLI vs MCP choice mostly changes the HOW as a side effect. It doesn't answer the bigger question and probably harder one: who delegated the rigtht to cause that effect, for how long, and with what scope? Just like with people, you need a policy decision that's independent. It should be revocable and auditable.

One way that I look at it is with these long-running agents should look less like a script and more like an employee. You wouldn't give them the master key hoping they behave well. You'd give specific access and in stages probably. That's what I think we're missing with our agents is giving them appropriate authority, delegated by an owner with a audit trail

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