This was on the front page and then got completely buried for some reason. Super weird.
Anti-AI conspiracy, obviously.
How I write software with LLMs
141–150 of 544 posts
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#142Genuine question: what's the evidence that the architect → developer → reviewer pipeline actually produces better results than just... talking to one strong model in one session? The author uses different models for each role, which I get. But I run production agents on Opus daily and in my experience, if you give it good context and clear direction in a single conversation, the output is already solid. The ceremony…
> what's the evidence What’s the evidence for anything software engineers use? Tests, type checkers, syntax highlighting, IDEs, code review, pair programming, and so on. In my experience, evidence for the efficacy of software engineering practices falls into two categories: - the intuitions of developers, based in their experiences. - scientific studies, which are unconvincing. Some are unconvincing because they atte…
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Re: How I write software with LLMs
#143I randomly clicked and scrolled through the source code of Stavrobot - The largest thing I’ve built lately is an alternative to OpenClaw that focuses on security. [1] and that is not great code. I have not used any AI to write code yet but considered trying it out - is this the kind of code I should expect? Or maybe the other way around, has someone an example of some non-trivial code - in size and complexity - writt…
From my experience, you kinda get what you ask for. If you don't ask for anything specific, it'll write as it sees fit. The more you involve yourself in the loop, the more you can get it to write according to your expectation. Also helps to give it a style guide of sorts that follows your preferred style.
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#144Genuine question: what's the evidence that the architect → developer → reviewer pipeline actually produces better results than just... talking to one strong model in one session? The author uses different models for each role, which I get. But I run production agents on Opus daily and in my experience, if you give it good context and clear direction in a single conversation, the output is already solid. The ceremony…
This is anecdotal but just a couple days ago, with some colleagues, we conducted a little experiment to gather that evidence. We used a hierarchy of agents to analyze a requirement, letting agents with different personas (architect, business analyst, security expert, developer, infra etc) discuss a request and distill a solution. They all had access to the source code of the project to work on. Then we provided the v…
If it could be done with 30 cents of Haiku calls, maybe it wasn't a complicated enough project to provide good signal?
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#145I randomly clicked and scrolled through the source code of Stavrobot - The largest thing I’ve built lately is an alternative to OpenClaw that focuses on security. [1] and that is not great code. I have not used any AI to write code yet but considered trying it out - is this the kind of code I should expect? Or maybe the other way around, has someone an example of some non-trivial code - in size and complexity - writt…
I would suggest not delegating the LLD (class / interface level design) to the LLM. The clankeren are super bad at it. They treat everything as a disposable script.
Also document some best practices in AGENT.md or whatever it's called in your app.
Eg
* All imports must be added on top of the file, NEVER inside the function.
* Do not swallow exceptions unless the scenario calls for fault tolerance.
* All functions need to have type annotations for parameters and return types.
I almost always define the class-level design myself. In some sense I use the LLM to fill in the blanks. The design is still mine.
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#146I randomly clicked and scrolled through the source code of Stavrobot - The largest thing I’ve built lately is an alternative to OpenClaw that focuses on security. [1] and that is not great code. I have not used any AI to write code yet but considered trying it out - is this the kind of code I should expect? Or maybe the other way around, has someone an example of some non-trivial code - in size and complexity - writt…
I also managed to find a 1000 line .cpp file in one of the projects. The article's content doesn't match his apps quality. They don't bring any value. His clock looks completely AI generated.
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hot take: you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you aren't writing code, designing the system, creating architecture, or even writing the prompt, then you're not understanding shit. You're playing slots with stochastic parrots The code grows beyond my usual comprehension, I'd have to really read through it for a while. Sometimes the LLMs can't fix a bug so I just work around it or ask for random changes until i…
> Sometimes the LLMs can't fix a bug so I just work around it or ask for random changes until it goes away. It's insane that this quote is coming from one of the leading figures in this field. And everyone's... OK that software development has been reduced to chance and brute force?
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Re: How I write software with LLMs
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't speak for everyone, but to me the most accurate answer is that I'm role-playing, because it just flows better. In the back of my head I know the chatbot is trained on conversations and I want it to reflect a professional and clear tone. But I usually keep it more simple in most cases. Your example: > I'd like to add email support to this bot. Let's think through how we would do this. I would likely write as:…
I agree, it's just easier to write requirements and refine things as if writing with a human. I no longer care that it risks anthropomorphising it, as that fight has long been lost. I prefer to focus on remembering it doesn't actually think/reason than not being polite to it. Keeping everything generally "human readable" also the advantage of it being easier for me to review later if needed.
I also always imagine that if I'm joined by a colleague on this task they might have to read through my conversation and I want to make it clear to a human too.
As you said, that "other person" might be me too. Same reason I comment code. There's another person reading it, most likely that other person is "me, but next week and with zero memory of this".
We do like anthropomorphising the machines, but I try to think they enjoy it...
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
I choose to talk in a respectful way, because that's how I want to communicate: it's not because I'm afraid of retaliation or burning bridges. It's because I am caring and conscious. If I think that something doesn't have feelings or long-term memory, whether it's AI or a piece of rock on the side of a trail, it in no way leads me to be abusive to it. Further, an LLM being inherently sycophantic leads to it mimmickin…
My wondering was never about being abusive, rather just having a dry tone and cutting the unnecessary parts, some sort of middle ground if you will. Prompting "yo chatgeepeetee whats good lemme get this feature real quick" doesn't make sense to me mostly because it's anthrophomorphizing it, and it's the same concept of unnecessary writing as "Good morning ChatGPT, would you please help me with ..."
I guess in part I commented not on what you said, but on seeing people be abusive when an LLM doesn't follow instructions or fails to fulfill some expectation. I think I had some pent up feelings about that.
> having a dry tone and cutting the unnecessary parts
That's how I try to communicate in professional settings (AI included). Our approaches might not be that different.
Re: How I write software with LLMs
#150It's interesting to see some patterns starting to emerge. Over time, I ended up with a similar workflow. Instead of using plan files within the repository, I'm using notion as the memory and source of truth. My "thinker" agent will ask questions, explore, and refine. It will write a feature page in notion, and split the implementation into tasks in a kanban board, for an "executor" to pick up, implement, and pass to…
No criticism or anything, but it really does feel / sound like you (and others who embraced LLMs and agentic coding) aspire to be more of a product manager than a coder. Thing is, a "real" PM comes with a lot more requirements and there's less demand for them - more requirements in that you need to be a people person and willing to spend at least half your time in meetings, and less demand because one PM will organiz…
I worked with some excellent PMs in the past, it's an entirely different skillset. This wasn't really meant to replace what they do. I really wanted something with which to work at feature-level. That is, after all the hard work of figuring out _what_ to build has been done.
> as a software developer I'd love for Someone Else to just curate a list of tasks and their requirements / acceptance criteria
That's interesting. In every team I worked in, I always fought really hard against anyone but developers being able to write tickets on the board.