Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU • Hacker News Board

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#141

Post by haizhung » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 3:45 PM UTC

blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

Please. The establishment is dying to capitalize on it, and puts out one ridiculous anti-immigration measure after the next. And all it does is that it simply boosts far right parties even more.

It’s completely obvious to me (and often supported by exit polls) that people who are voting far right aren’t actually against immigration - only on the surface. Once you dig just a little bit deeper, often socioeconomic struggles surface. The working class has been taking a beating since the what, 1980s now? And it’s not like there’s any sort of legislature on the horizon that would fix their predicament.

So people look for a scapegoat. The far right gives them a scapegoat goat, and the enlightened center doesn’t know how to handle it.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#142

Post by ffsm8 » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 3:45 PM UTC

NullCascade wrote: post #109

blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

the anti-immigration right in Denmark was successful because they were data-driven and could show that unskilled non-Western immigration was a net negative even by 3rd generation. the American and German far-right by contrast seem to be the polar opposite of data-driven. No the lazy 'IQ by country' maps don't count.

> the anti-immigration right in Denmark was successful because they were data-driven and could show that unskilled non-Western immigration was a net negative even by 3rd generation.

That is very true however you're misunderstanding why the German (where I'm from) and Americans parties aren't publishing this data. It's not because they're lazy, but because they can't.

And before you're now thinking: "aha! So they're not net negative!" ...well, these statistics aren't available either.

The reality is that the data to create these graphs aren't public, or never created. The likely reason for that being labeled 'nazi' for even considering gathering such data.

I personally suspect that they're net negative, in total but net positive on average (so numerically, most immigrants being positive). At least that would reflect my personal experience with with immigrants. However, you only need a very small percentage of immigrants to game the system in order to make the whole sample size negative because of the insane amount of money a bad actor can drain.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#143

Post by subscribed » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 3:46 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #106

smspillaz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they do meaningfully try to address this. Almost every country in the west is tightening it's system. In the UK claiming ILR will take a significantly longer period of lawful residence, and a shorter time will require you to meet a high income threshold. It is nearly impossible to get PR in Canada now unless you are fluent in both English and French and have a PhD or several years of canadian work experience. The…

The only meaningful action would be to stop well fare for immigrants. You don't work, you don't have money. Madness is for UK government to tax UK citizens to pay for housing and food of immigrants. Incentives drive behavior. If you're African and see you can live for free in England, of course you'll try to get that deal. And in age of social media, they know. Denmark did that and saw dramatic drop in number of peop…

But they are forbidden from working!

LOL, if you need to be so openly racist at least try being consistent.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#144

Post by Schmerika » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 3:46 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #46

Schmerika wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the cohort most likely to vote well when they do. The 18 year olds who vote less but vote for good parties are doing good, overall. The 60 year olds voting Tory their whole lives - not so much. It's very easy to blame the young for all the problems earlier generations created and exacerbated. Not too wise though.

> And the cohort most likely to vote well when they do Eh, this is far from a given. Mao's Red Guards were passionate idiots. And America's young men are in thrall of Clavicular. The most powerful empires in history have had large rebublics at their cores for good reason. The wisdom of a crowd greatly increases with its diversity.

> this is far from a given.

It's a given in Britain; ie, where we're talking about.

> Mao's Red Guards were passionate idiots.

Ok. And?

> America's young men are in thrall of Clavicular.

Clavicular? What? Were you trying to type Caligula - in which case, again, what?

American youth are far better voters than the elder generations - at least in terms of being against things like genocide, or in favor of things like universal healthcare, affordable housing/education, a liveable environment etc.

Unless you favor America's current status quo, which some people might. Personally, ew.

> The most powerful empires in history have had large rebublics at their cores for good reason.

Ehm you might consider the Dutch/British/Spanish/Mongolian/Roman/American empires role models of exemplary voting, but I certainly don't.

> The wisdom of a crowd greatly increases with its diversity.

If that's true (in certain contexts, with caveats, etc), then maybe by that logic we shouldn't be dismissive of young people, eg, just because they generally vote a bit less than older generations.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#145

Post by Schmerika » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 3:50 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #116

tirant wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who defines what voting well is? Or what a good party is? The observed damage that the UK has inflicted to itself has been caused so far by all the parties that have been in power.

Voting in ways that genuinely serve their interests, perhaps? Voting in an educated manner? Voting for candidates and policies that will help people overall, rather than those that will hurt people overall, just so that they can hurt Those People?

Those seem to be the major differences alright. Well put.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#146

Post by JCattheATM » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 4:05 PM UTC

sgt wrote: post #58

saubeidl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand your thinking. I was very against Brexit (and still am). What is there to be gained, in your opinion? In my view, you traded being one of the leading voices in what is increasingly shaping up to be one of the world's superpowers for being a somewhat isolated middle power, nostalgic for its former glory. Why would that be worth it?

UK did not need the EU for trade agreements. Those can be set up separately. There were a number of examples where the UK kept losing control, and instead having the EU try to determine the direction. This led to loss in sovereignty and freedom. Sadly though it doesn't seem like the UK politicians are taking advantage of this (regulatory, laws, borders, immigrations etc) just yet, but at least now it's possible. My p…

The UK never can be a superpower again, not in an age of USA and an emerging China and India.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#147

Post by Larrikin » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 4:08 PM UTC

tirant wrote: post #80

ForHackernews wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it's economically catastrophic to cut off the supply of young, low-wage labour and that's why no responsible government will ever do it.

If that’s indeed the case, how do you explain the lack of catastrophe in Japans economy ? Japans big catastrophe happened in 1990 with the bubble bursting, but that was years before the peak in working age population. Since then, the economy has not improved much but also has remained somehow stable.

All the jobs in Japan are hard work and low wage. If you're relatively poor and moving from south east Asia, it may make sense to immigrate to Japan. If you're a developer you typically will make half or less than half the salary, for longer hours on some old stack.

When discussing where to live my wife realized that she would potentially triple her salary as a nurse with 10+ years of experience.

Tourists like Japan because it is clean, safe and relatively cheap, but given the option it really does not make sense to work there.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#148

Post by ForHackernews » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 4:21 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #111

blfr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, what I am saying is that these votes, regardless of their formal content, are usually an expression of general anti-immigrant sentiment. Like voting for AfD. I doubt many people look at this organization and its leaders to conclude that "ah, here is the talent I would love to have running my country." They're merely the only available option against. Same with brexit.

UK pays for free housing of 110 thousand immigrants. And that's just one of the many well fare benefits. But when they face deficit, they raise taxes instead of, crazy idea, not spending billions of money taken from UK citizens to provide free housing and food for foreigners. UK citizens are rightfully pissed off that their life is getting worse. That's not the social contract and being pissed off about that is not r…

> The same happens in Spain, Germany, France, Italy.

Spain is a bad example to reach for here, they are on track to regularize a huge chunk of unauthorized migrants: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62n6gw1dp9o

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#149

Post by HPsquared » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 4:23 PM UTC

Smaug123 wrote: post #108

0_____0 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading about UK housing and had to look up "rising damp." We don't have that here, or at least not to the level we need a word for it.

The UK climate never really stops being moist, and our houses are routinely at least a hundred years old and made of brick, built before we knew how to deal with damp and built without AC. If we rebuilt everything we'd fix it, but we can't.

That just means they've had 100 years to fix it.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#150

Post by HPsquared » Sat, Feb 21, 2026, 4:27 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #135

HPsquared wrote: post #30

The UK is such a trap for professionals. It's one of the worst places in the developed world for living standards of white-collar professionals, except a tiny slice of finance workers in London. Especially bad for engineers, and has been for a long time.

Your criteria for "living standards" being pay?

I mean living standards. The size and quality of housing, quality of food, public spaces, infrastructure, healthcare, social conditions and so on that is available and affordable to the average working professional.