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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#141

Post by janalsncm »

rayiner wrote: post #2

A confounding factor here is that savings behavior is cultural rooted: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6135367/ . Studies show that people within a country can have substantially different savings behaviors, robustly correlated with their origin countries, even among people who are third generation immigrants. It’s a mistake to treat either the U.S. or Singapore as homogenous populations for purposes of this…

75% of Singaporeans are ethnically Chinese so based on what you are saying it would be worth comparing SG Chinese to Chinese CN on regret since China has a much less robust safety net.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#142

Post by stackbutterflow »

foxyv wrote: post #134
stackbutterflow wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question cannot be asked in good faith on a user board. It requires an 800 pages book on politics, history, philosophy, economics to be properly answerered and it would barely scratch the surface. You might as well ask similar questions about most basic laws and concepts behind how western societies work.

Yes, you should be asking similar questions about most basic laws and concepts behind how western society works.

We should each ask ourselves such questions and review our view on them from time to time during our life because they're important, but mostly by doing our own research and self study. But asking point-blank strangers such a vague question is putting an unfair burden on them.

There's maybe a few hundred people worldwide who could casually drop a proper answer to your question while casually browsing hn.

I believe it'd be more fair to start answering your own question to show how far you are in your intellectual journey on that topic.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#143

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

bjourne wrote: post #139
glimshe wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FIRE community and my own personal situation prove you very, very wrong. It's absolutely possible for a upper middle class family to retire in their 50s, even in their 40s, if they live frugally.

Statistics! Can a person below the median income afford to retire early? The answer is a resounding no. Can a person the top 10th percentile (upper middle class) afford to retire early? Yes.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

So the top 10% is a household income of $250K and most of those couples didn’t reach that until their 40s. They aren’t making $225K as an L5 at 25 years old like a former intern/new grad I mentored when I was at BigTech

Most software developers won’t even see above $160K inflation adjusted during their career. Most work in second tier cities in the “enterprise”z.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#144

Post by carlosjobim »

goolz wrote: post #58
ecshafer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government decides when we can retire and they help us out. You can stop working today if you want, Government shouldn't pay you for it for no reason. Your duty as a citizen is to work and build your nation, eventually the government pays back that service with benefits.

These days I wonder about that duty I have. It sure felt obligatory some time ago. I thought of myself as a patriot and that the rule of law was something we we should be proud of. A country whose own anthem spoke of "liberty and justice for all". The current trajectory makes my question a lot of things, including this whole "government pays back that service with benefits" as it will be some time before I ever see a…

There is no "we" and has never been. Anybody who talks to you about "we" or "us" or your "duty" is just seeking to exploit you, hoping that you're dumb enough to fall for it.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#145

Post by throwway120385 »

goolz wrote: post #58
ecshafer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government decides when we can retire and they help us out. You can stop working today if you want, Government shouldn't pay you for it for no reason. Your duty as a citizen is to work and build your nation, eventually the government pays back that service with benefits.

These days I wonder about that duty I have. It sure felt obligatory some time ago. I thought of myself as a patriot and that the rule of law was something we we should be proud of. A country whose own anthem spoke of "liberty and justice for all". The current trajectory makes my question a lot of things, including this whole "government pays back that service with benefits" as it will be some time before I ever see a…

A lot of that here in the US is because we've lost the will to participate in the systems that establish these things. We leave that to other people, and those other people represent our interests poorly. The people in a democracy take a really long time to effect change. It can be a life's work for some people. But the premise is that if we can find common ground we can eventually see some of our ideas take shape. That does still work here, but we have to actually have real conversations with each other that respect each others' differences to get anywhere.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#146

Post by mothballed »

philwelch wrote: post #112
foxyv wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice between working and starving to death is not a choice. If your savings have been taken by the government, then you don't have a choice. The justification is to force people to work until they are too old to do so. Then steal whatever they have left with medical bills and price hikes on necessities.

And if I was emperor, I would abolish payroll taxes and phase out Social Security. Unfortunately, we live in a democracy.

Social security was sold to the populace for purposes of voting as "insurance." Lawmakers straight up admitted they purposefully wrote the law in a confusing way[] -- resulting in evasion of democratic scrutiny and the scrutiny of the constitution. Then they briefly switched to not calling it insurance just for the purpose of scrutiny of the courts.

Social Security constitutionality was ruled on just months after the 'switch in time that saved 9' associated with a threatening to pack the courts and evade the checks and balances built into our "democracy." They ruled it was covered under 'general welfare' in a way that was totally historically inaccurate.

Furthermore, FDR and congress purposefully had it packaged in an omnibus style bill to evade democratic scrutiny over the individual portions, by purposefully torpedoing other aid to needy individuals if SS didn't pass, so that lawmakers wouldn't be able to vote on democratic view of SS but rather being damned in a catch-22 where they'd be accused of not helping out the needy in other ways.

Basically the whole thing was designed to not only evade democracy but also the constitution.

[] Recollections of the New Deal, by Thomas H. Eliot, pp. 102-115 (Northeastern University Press, Boston, 1991).

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#147

Post by kccqzy »

eunos wrote: post #17
mothballed wrote: post #4

Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the better off citizens take advantage of in Singapore (maybe even disproportionately so since there can be a long wait to get in, you are older and more settled at that point). Immigrants that get milked dry and go broke and jobless during a shock are booted fro…

I think you can buy if youre PR and married (or old enough). If you are lucky you can receive your PR in 1 year.

The Singapore PR system is purposefully racist. If you are white, your probability of getting a PR and citizenship is way lower than someone of the Chinese race. The government does not want significant changes to the country’s racial composition.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#148

Post by throwway120385 »

foxyv wrote: post #96
goolz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days I wonder about that duty I have. It sure felt obligatory some time ago. I thought of myself as a patriot and that the rule of law was something we we should be proud of. A country whose own anthem spoke of "liberty and justice for all". The current trajectory makes my question a lot of things, including this whole "government pays back that service with benefits" as it will be some time before I ever see a…

I wouldn't mind taxes if everyone paid their fair share and it went to improving the lives of everyone instead of the wealthy few. We live in the most productive times per capita that have ever existed. Why do we need to scrimp and save to buy food while the number of billionaires continues to climb?

Because we're failing to hold those billionaires accountable to the system that allows them to accumulate their wealth.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#149

Post by mech998877 »

aprdm wrote: post #128
glimshe wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FIRE community and my own personal situation prove you very, very wrong. It's absolutely possible for a upper middle class family to retire in their 50s, even in their 40s, if they live frugally.

"Live frugally" , "FIRE" , "work in tech" All incompatible with 99% of the upper class, neither do they want to eat ramen to retire early. You're also one medical disaster away from being "very very wrong"

90%+ chance the person you are replying to has health insurance that will cover them in case of medical disaster.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#150

Post by foxyv »

stackbutterflow wrote: post #142
foxyv wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you should be asking similar questions about most basic laws and concepts behind how western society works.

We should each ask ourselves such questions and review our view on them from time to time during our life because they're important, but mostly by doing our own research and self study. But asking point-blank strangers such a vague question is putting an unfair burden on them. There's maybe a few hundred people worldwide who could casually drop a proper answer to your question while casually browsing hn. I believe it…

My own answer is this. We have created a system of exploitation where we extract value from people's labor and transfer it to an oligarchicy that is slowly increasing in power. Governments are captured by that ruling class and are unwilling to do anything that threatens them. In addition, they are slowly reducing the rights and social mobility of the middle and lower class in order to expand the power and capital of the oligarchy.

Any money that is possessed by the working classes is then taxed in the form of increased living expenses or directly by the government until they can barely afford the necessities that allow them to continue working. Once they are no longer able to do so, they are discarded and allowed to die of preventable illness, starvation, drug use or exposure.

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