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"Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

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Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#141

Post by mikkupikku »

squeefers wrote: post #140
mikkupikku wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you've had too much TV. It really does rot your brain, this is obvious to anybody who doesn't watch TV, but completely imperceptible to those who do.

> It really does rot your brain, this is obvious to anybody who doesn't watch TV, but completely imperceptible to those who do. how do you block video on your PC? or do you literally mean audiovisual information broadcast onto actual television sets is the evil?

When you watch television, or television on your computer screen (that makes no difference) you get hypnotized by the tube into a passive state of consumption. Watch people when they watch TV. Watch their slack jawed faces when the commercials stay on and their attention stays glued to the advertisements pitching Alzheimer drugs. Critical though suspended, minds off in space.

In short, read a book.

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#142

Post by enraged_camel »

baq wrote: post #138
enraged_camel wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time someone suggests Codex I give it a shot. And every time it disappoints. After I read your comment, I gave Codex 5.3 the task of setting up an E2E testing skeleton for one of my repos, using Playwright. It worked for probably 45 minutes and in the end failed miserably: out of the five smoke tests it created, only two of them passed. It gave up on the other three and said they will need “further investigatio…

moral of the story is use both (or more) and pick the one that works - or even merge the best ideas from generated solutions. independent agentic harnesses support multi-model workflows.

I don't think that's the moral of the story at all. It's already challenging enough to review the output from one model. Having to review two, and then comparing and contrasting them, would more than double the cognitive load. It would also cost more.

I think it's much more preferable to pick the most reliable one and use it as the primary model, and think of others as fallbacks for situations where it struggles.

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#143

Post by lpnam0201 »

Hasnep wrote: post #130
lelanthran wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What businesses charge for a product is completely unrelated to what it costs them. They charge what the market will bear. If "what the market will bear" is lower than the cost of production then they will stop offering it.

Companies make a loss on purpose all the time.

Not forever. If that's their main business then they will eventually have to profit or they die.

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#144

Post by djaro »

cedilla wrote: post #113
samrus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's Anthropic's optimization target??? Getting you the right answer as fast as possible! That is a generous interpretation. Mighr be correct. But they dont make as much money if you quickly get the right answer. They make more money if you spend as many tokens as possible being on that "maybe next time" hook. Im not saying theyre actually optimizng for that. But charlie munger said "show me the incentives, and i…

I know for sure that each and every AI I use wants to write whole novellas in response to every prompt unless I carefully remind it to keep responses short over and over and over again. This didn't used to be the case, so I assume that it must be intentional.

I've noticed this getting a lot worse recently. I just want to ask a simple question, and end up gettig a whole essay in response, an 8-step plan, and 5 follow-up questions. Lately ChatGPT has also been referencing previous conversations constantly, as if to prove that it "knows" me.

"Should I add oregano to brown beans or would that not taste good?"

"Great instinct! Based on your interests in building new apps and learning new languages, you are someone who enjoys discovering new things, and it makes sense that you'd want to experiment with new flavor profiles as well. Your combination of oregano and brown beans is a real fusion of Italian and Mexican food, skillfully synthesizing these two cultures.

Here's a list of 5 random unrelated spices you can also add to brown beans:

Also, if you want to, I can create a list of other recipes that incorporate these oregano. Just say the words "I am hungry" and I will get right back to it!"

Also, random side note, I hate ChatGPT asking me to "say the word" or "repeat the sentence". Just ask me if I want it and then I say yes or no, I am not going to repeat "go oregano!" like some sort of magic keyphrase to unlock a list of recipes.

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#145

Post by co_king_5 »

crystal_revenge wrote: post #82
ctoth wrote: post #11

The gambling analogy completely falls apart on inspection. Slot machines have variable reward schedules by design — every element is optimized to maximize time on device. Social media optimizes for engagement, and compulsive behavior is the predictable output. The optimization target produces the addiction. What's Anthropic's optimization target??? Getting you the right answer as fast as possible! The variability in…

> What's Anthropic's optimization target??? Getting you the right answer as fast as possible! What makes you believe this? The current trend in all major providers seem to be: get you to spin up as many agents as possible so that you can get billed more and their number of requests goes up. > Slot machines have variable reward schedules by design LLMs by all major providers are optimized used RLHF where they are opti…

[dead]

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#146

Post by co_king_5 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #101
delusional wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is nation-states funding private corporations "cut-throat competition"?

What does this even mean? Are you disputing the fact that AI labs are competing with each other because they are funded by nation-states?

[dead]

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#147

Post by stoneforger »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #104
tokioyoyo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you believe this? Simply, cut-throat competition. Given multiple nations are funding different AI-labs, quality of output and speed are one of the most important things.

sigh We're doing this lie again? Quality of Outcome is not, has never been, and if the last 40 years are anything to go on will never be a core or even tangential goal. Dudes are trying to make the stock numbers go up and get paid. That's it. That's all it ever is.

Hey man people either get it or they don't. We're doomed.

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#148

Post by baq »

enraged_camel wrote: post #142
baq wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

moral of the story is use both (or more) and pick the one that works - or even merge the best ideas from generated solutions. independent agentic harnesses support multi-model workflows.

I don't think that's the moral of the story at all. It's already challenging enough to review the output from one model. Having to review two, and then comparing and contrasting them, would more than double the cognitive load. It would also cost more. I think it's much more preferable to pick the most reliable one and use it as the primary model, and think of others as fallbacks for situations where it struggles.

you should always benchmark your use cases and you obviously don't review multiple outputs; you only review the consensus.

see how perplexity does it: https://www.perplexity.ai/hub/blog/introducing-model-council

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#149

Post by [deleted] »

ctoth wrote: post #11

The gambling analogy completely falls apart on inspection. Slot machines have variable reward schedules by design — every element is optimized to maximize time on device. Social media optimizes for engagement, and compulsive behavior is the predictable output. The optimization target produces the addiction. What's Anthropic's optimization target??? Getting you the right answer as fast as possible! The variability in…

[deleted]

Re: "Token anxiety", a slot machine by any other name

#150

Post by malfist »

enraged_camel wrote: post #101
delusional wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is nation-states funding private corporations "cut-throat competition"?

What does this even mean? Are you disputing the fact that AI labs are competing with each other because they are funded by nation-states?

Why do you have to compete if you can just say "but China!" And get billions more dollars from the government
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