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Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

greenwald.substack.com

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Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#141

Post by intended »

softwaredoug wrote: post #89
chii wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we build a resilient system that doesn’t rely on single platforms? by making sure that compatibility is enshrined into law, so that competition occurs, rather than walled gardens. It has to start at the top - gov't has to mandate it.

Anything that relies on gov't can be undone by gov't. Or weaponized by gov't. We need resilience that's hard to regulate or undo.

You (and the rest of the world) are not really swimming in a sea og alternatives.

If government regulation is the tool which can bring the amount of torque needed to loosen the screws on competition, then government is the tool you have to use.

Regulation is also being developed around the world to figure out how to address the challenges being thrown up. The DSA and GDPR are being studied and better policy will result.

Government has connotations in America, that end up derailing any conversation about it.

Usually at some point, it gets pointed out that Tech is booming in America, while it’s moribund in Europe, and do you really want to be Europe? This shifts the conversation to what kind of money you want to make.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#142

Post by oceansky »

prmoustache wrote: post #128
oceansky wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone commented on a HN threads on just de-googling and he couldn't even pick up his kids without a gmail or apple account. Just not using it is really unrealistic for the average person at this moment

> [...] and he couldn't even pick up his kids without a gmail or apple account. How so?

He needed to verify his identity via an app at pick up time, and needed an gmail/apple account as part of the process. I don't remember which app.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#143

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

oefrha wrote: post #85
ori_b wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which statistics are you looking at? Crime has been dropping since the 90s, with the exception of short term regressions. https://jasher.substack.com/p/crime-is-likely-down-an-enormo...

You do realize these are still crap compared to other countries right?

Small rich counties with vast majority homogeneous populations?

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#144

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bloak wrote: post #82
WarmWash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an intractable problem because people now have a general expectation that everything is "free". Look at Kagi's success and compare it to Google. It doesn't even register. People need to start paying for things, because if you're not paying for it, you're not in control of it.

Alternatively, basic stuff like e-mail and payment processing should be provided by the state. After all, the state provides a road network, which is similarly essential and rather more expensive.

> basic stuff like e-mail and payment processing should be provided by the state

You're looking at America in 2026 and concluding we want to give the state more control over private lives?

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#145

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

m348e912 wrote: post #72

I know Ring is getting a bad rap for enabling state level surveillance, but the Ring app offers an option to enable end-to-end encryption between the camera and your phone. The stored video is encrypted with key generated on your phone. You have to be physically close to the camera in order to share the key and complete the set-up. Once encrypted, the video can't be analyzed by AI or used in a broad surveillance effo…

>enable end-to-end encryption between the camera and your phone.

So… exactly not the part I care about?

Cool, it’s encrypted on transit to me… now what about at rest with them? Is it encrypted and they absolutely can not view or hand that footage to police/gov? No.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#146

Post by JumpCrisscross »

shakna wrote: post #35
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No marketing team would willingly do this and it's insane to think otherwise.

Cambridge Analytica was an experiment run by a marketing team. I wouldn't say marketing will always side on ethics. Propaganda is, and always has been, a subset of marketing aimed at shifting public perception. It would be wild to assume it never happens.

> Cambridge Analytica was an experiment run by a marketing team. I wouldn't say marketing will always side on ethics

The argument isn't against ethics. It's about self interest. Amazon bought the Super Bowl ad to sell Nest units.

"Unwitting" is correct. There are no lizard people coordinating our march towards dystopia. Just individual people who will–like me–read this article, think we should do more, and then probably do nothing.

(If you want a realistic conspiracy, Amazon may have greenlit the spot with an eye towards an audience of one or two in D.C.)

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#147

Post by this_user »

devsda wrote: post #102
oceansky wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone commented on a HN threads on just de-googling and he couldn't even pick up his kids without a gmail or apple account. Just not using it is really unrealistic for the average person at this moment

I know it is probably not the American way but the only way to address this problem is to make laws that prevent a duopoly, penalize anti-competitive behavior and push open-source standards for software/hardware. Unfortunately, the status quo also means the US (and its tech giants) has real power and control over other countries' technology sector. So, no party in America will make or enforce laws that will change th…

> make laws that prevent a duopoly, penalize anti-competitive behavior and push open-source standards for software/hardware.

None of this is legally easy to implement or enforce, and any attempt of doing it is virtually guaranteed to create an unbelievable amount of unintended consequences as people figure out ways to game this new set of rules.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#148

Post by otterley »

calibas wrote: post #139
otterley wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an attorney I’d like to understand why you think there is a “clear” Constitutional violation going on here. What activity, specifically, are you referring to, and what precedent supports your claim?

You're an attorney and you're asking me why the government spying on everyone is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment?

Yes. You’re the one making the assertion (not just that there is a violation but also that the activity is that “the government spying on everyone”); the burden of proof is thus on you.

Attorneys challenge each other as a matter of course in every case before a court. This is how the adversarial system works.

Perhaps what you meant to say is that “I don’t like the activity that is happening here,” or “I think some of this might be unconstitutional.” When someone makes a naked blanket assertion about the law, it’s usually a sign that that person doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#149

Post by sillywabbit »

rvnx wrote: post #105
sillywabbit wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End-to-end encryption only means something if you trust the endpoints.

They often also tend to call HTTPS end-to-end encryption https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/media/securing-your-origin-for-... even Amazon Web Services: Benefits of using HTTPS connections: HTTPS provides end-to-end encryption

I wonder if that's why it's called Transport Layer Security.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#150

Post by devsda »

prmoustache wrote: post #128
oceansky wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone commented on a HN threads on just de-googling and he couldn't even pick up his kids without a gmail or apple account. Just not using it is really unrealistic for the average person at this moment

> [...] and he couldn't even pick up his kids without a gmail or apple account. How so?

In our part of the world that's Meta/WhatsApp.

All school and class related information is shared exclusively via WhatsApp communities.

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