Earlier quoted context omitted.
[dead]
It might be an unpopular idea, but I think being somewhat liberal with doling out timeouts and bans for inflammatory/reactionary/overemotional posting would do a lot of good, too. It strongly crystalizes community norms and sends a message that this is a space to engage with the higher functioning portions of your brain instead of letting your amygdala and dopamine pathways take the wheel. Edit: Why is parent comment…
Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
141–150 of 168 posts
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#142Thirty years ago I was enthusiastic about what we now call liquid democracy . Elders, to whom I spoke that lived through WWII, saw dynamic+direct democracy as extremely dangerous. I now share their opinion. To have a healthy world, we need to start with democratic engagement on every block, of every district in every city, in all counties of every province, in all nations across every continent of our shared planet.…
What is the underlying problem and what are the potential solutions? > saw dynamic+direct democracy as extremely dangerous Are you saying that humans, on average, are bad/harmful/evil? Or that they commit to decisions without thinking them through and act on emotions instead of reason? Because if the first, then making democracy indirect or otherwise limited should not help. So I believe it is the second. Then the qu…
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the underlying problem and what are the potential solutions? > saw dynamic+direct democracy as extremely dangerous Are you saying that humans, on average, are bad/harmful/evil? Or that they commit to decisions without thinking them through and act on emotions instead of reason? Because if the first, then making democracy indirect or otherwise limited should not help. So I believe it is the second. Then the qu…
The principal danger is the concentration of power. We should start by rejuvenating and supporting local communities and institutions, interpersonal human connections with primacy. Bottom up governance seems critical, it is where political discussion (with real examples) might happen without becoming a spectacle of identity.
Absolutely. Good people can cooperate or reach compromises for mutual benefit. Bad people are each in it for himself - while they do form alliances sometimes, ultimately working together is unnatural for them and often temporary.
Requiring any position of power to be always distributed among many people obviously makes it hard for a single person to abuse power but less obviously disadvantages bad people by its very nature on a deeper level.
> local communities and institutions
I have an idea which I for now call consent-based society. I need to think about it a lot more but for now:
People talk about rights and freedoms but can't decide where the rights of one person end and another person's begin. If we focus on consent, it may become simpler. People could then form larger and larger groups based on agreement (consent) to rules - a house, small village, city, state. But only as long as it benefits them - consent can be revoked at any time.
But of course, historically, nation states emerged because large hierarchical power structures are advantageous at war and it'll take a long time to get people away from considering them natural, correct or inevitable.
---
Anyway, I don't think your post really answers my question though. From what I read, liquid democracy seems like a form of bottom up governance.
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#144Thirty years ago I was enthusiastic about what we now call liquid democracy . Elders, to whom I spoke that lived through WWII, saw dynamic+direct democracy as extremely dangerous. I now share their opinion. To have a healthy world, we need to start with democratic engagement on every block, of every district in every city, in all counties of every province, in all nations across every continent of our shared planet.…
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
We really need proof of soul systems to exist, extended to also have a proof of citizenship. While the proof of soul systems can plausible be done in a decentralized manner, proof of citizenship is much harder, and in my opinion this is one of (the few) things the government should really do.
Either I'm not sure what you mean by soul, or you are all-in on dualism.
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm also somewhat curious about how "hateful content" is defined... I mean having a serious discussion on policies around children in schools and sport regarding trans issues has been labelled in some circles as hateful content if it doesn't blindly support the most progressive views. I'm just using this as a specific example. Not saying that there aren't hateful sentiments or people behind comments or positions... o…
Sigh... you know there's single digits number of trans athletes in the entire NCAA. The fact that this is even discussed at all is absurd given what else is going on in the country. Yes, intelligent people can have a conversation about it but even if you think it's a problem it's problem #43,948 on the list. Let's solve the other 43,947 problems first. It's really hard to believe people when they say it's not about b…
It's such an unpopular idea for so many different reasons that this has managed to unify some very different groups of people in opposition: feminists, conservatives, disaffected liberals, and many others.
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this is different from current town halls how? If you have an important issue to you, there are ways to be heard, and they aren't always convenient. This is how representative democracy is meant to work... you work/talk with your local representatives who work as part of a larger body on your behalf. Part of the problem in the US is we stopped growing the House of Representatives, which should be about 4-5x the s…
My experience with my local town hall is that they are realestate developers looking to green light their nepo-projects, they don't even know the basic nomenclature of a committee. And when they want to borrow $90,000,000 to make a survailance center at a bad interest rate for a population of ~100,000 and the locals lose their shit over it, the first thing they try to do is ditch the process that allowed the people t…
We've lost our sense of culture, purpose, pride and nationality with each generation. And while a lot of it may have been mostly propaganda, there's something to be said for civic cohesion.
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm of a similar mindset... pure/liquid democracy is literally rule by mob. It can only amplify choices made by feeling over substance. As an ideal, I've always favored a libertarian mindset... my freedom should extend so far as it doesn't impede on another's rights. Which is a really broad interpretation... I think the further we allow govt to get away from that, the worse things get over time. Freedom is important.
> I'm of a similar mindset... pure/liquid democracy is literally rule by mob. Rule by people is literally rule by derogatory term for people? The “literally” seems to suggest that this is supposed to communicate more than a personal feeling towards a subject. And yet.
Worked up mobs make horrible decisions.
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm also somewhat curious about how "hateful content" is defined... I mean having a serious discussion on policies around children in schools and sport regarding trans issues has been labelled in some circles as hateful content if it doesn't blindly support the most progressive views. I'm just using this as a specific example. Not saying that there aren't hateful sentiments or people behind comments or positions... o…
Sigh... you know there's single digits number of trans athletes in the entire NCAA. The fact that this is even discussed at all is absurd given what else is going on in the country. Yes, intelligent people can have a conversation about it but even if you think it's a problem it's problem #43,948 on the list. Let's solve the other 43,947 problems first. It's really hard to believe people when they say it's not about b…
Now, scratch my belly and pay for my hair and tall implants with your taxes.
Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sigh... you know there's single digits number of trans athletes in the entire NCAA. The fact that this is even discussed at all is absurd given what else is going on in the country. Yes, intelligent people can have a conversation about it but even if you think it's a problem it's problem #43,948 on the list. Let's solve the other 43,947 problems first. It's really hard to believe people when they say it's not about b…
It's discussed because it's representative of a broader disagreement. People are rejecting the idea that 'woman' is nothing more than an identity that men can choose to appropriate, and are opposed to having this idea imposed upon society in law and policy. It's such an unpopular idea for so many different reasons that this has managed to unify some very different groups of people in opposition: feminists, conservati…