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I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

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Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#141

Post by esskay »

ksec wrote: post #110
speak_plainly wrote: post #54

Apple News and News+ represent everything wrong with modern Apple: a ham-fisted approach to simplicity that ignores the end user. It is their most mediocre service, jarringly jamming cheap clickbait next to serious journalism in a layout that makes no sense. The technical execution is just as lazy. While some magazines are tailored, many are just flat, low-res PDFs that look terrible on the high-end Retina screens Ap…

Ever since Apple moved to Services Strategy in 2014 it has been like this. Services were not there so they could provide a better experience for its " customers ". I use the word " customer " here which is what Apple / Steve Jobs used to call their loyal fans, and not user . But to further growth their Revenue pie because they foresee iPhone one day will stagnant. You now have Apple Fitness+, Apple TV, News, Music, A…

Arcade is comically poor value. I can't tell if Apple doesn't care, or they're just so deluded due to their insular nature and crap attitude towards gaming that they genuinely think its a good service to offer mediocre mobile games for a premium.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#143

Post by Terretta »

WarmWash wrote: post #113
elashri wrote: post #68

We should assume that all ads in general are scams. The noise to signal ratio is too large to care. Word of mouth and maybe trusted communities like HN is the only way to reliably discover new things.

Generally if all the ads you see are scammy, it means you probably are using some form of tracking/privacy protection. When an ad network has a strong profile on you, legitimate companies pay good money for those ad slots. When they don't really know who you are, only bottom feeders bid on the ad slots you see. In a way, it almost acts as retribution for not submitting to the anti-privacy machine.

This sounds brilliant, makes too much sense, and suggests a new kind of ad blocker to escalate and reflect retribution back.

Unrelated: Once upon a time it was believed ads should pair with content, not with users. It's been proven to still be more effective. Problem (for advertisers) is reach vs. cost of producing ads that content-align. In any case, Apple has enough reach they could easily bring ad sales in-house. Plenty TV shows, the show owner retains rights to ad slots partly to ensure no brand damage to show and partly to make more money per slot.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#144

Post by swores »

addicted wrote: post #132
ksec wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever since Apple moved to Services Strategy in 2014 it has been like this. Services were not there so they could provide a better experience for its " customers ". I use the word " customer " here which is what Apple / Steve Jobs used to call their loyal fans, and not user . But to further growth their Revenue pie because they foresee iPhone one day will stagnant. You now have Apple Fitness+, Apple TV, News, Music, A…

"customer" is a much better term IMO. It indicates this is ultimately a transactional relationship where both sides have certain responsibilities. The customer the responsibility to provide the money, and the provider receiving the money has a responsibility to provide the customer with something, products or services, of value that makes their lives better. "user" is a worse term. It suggests that the "user" is simp…

> "It's also not a coincidence, IMO, that drug addicts are also called "users" since "user" implies a one way dependent relationship and that's what all the tech companies have been trying to create."

You're drawing a connection that's not there. It's indeed not a coincidence, but just because both situations fit the definition of the word "user" (and "to use").

People use drugs, whether they're addicted or whether they're taking a one-off dose given to them by a doctor. They are a customer in that situation if they're buying the drug from somebody (illegal dealer, pharmacy), but they're a user whether they paid or not.

Likewise, someone is a customer if Apple's if they paid for, or are expected to pay in the future, a device or service. But they're a user regardless of whether they're using a phone they bought, or a service that's being provided for free.

People can use services provided by charities, they can use skis on a mountain... there's absolutely no negative connotation to its general definition, it just happens that some things people use are bad and some are good.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#145

Post by Aransentin »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #76
Aransentin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> authors don't want to invest time in people that are able to spot such mistakes This "just-so" story gets repeated constantly in threads about scams, but I've never seen anyone put up any actual proof. The more likely explanation is that scammers are just bad at English since they're predominantly from poor third-world countries.

This is research from Microsoft that goes into more detail: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/...

I skimmed the pdf; they show a model where having such an early "filter" is beneficial to the scammer, but doesn't provide any actual evidence that it applies in reality beyond restating the just-so story.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#146

Post by ataru »

I've noticed that the apple news ads target sensitive issues. The retirement one is a good example of that. I've seen ads that appear to already know my financial status and health conditions. I tried the option to reset my advertising identifier, it doesn't seem to make much impact.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#147

Post by ocdtrekkie »

pjc50 wrote: post #87
elashri wrote: post #68

We should assume that all ads in general are scams. The noise to signal ratio is too large to care. Word of mouth and maybe trusted communities like HN is the only way to reliably discover new things.

The only way out of this is to make ad platforms liable for scam ads. At the moment it's simply too profitable to print lies.

Yep, one of the big problems is the penalty for any corporate crime today is not enough. Often the crime is more profitable than the penalty hurts.

If you want to fix ads, make a malicious ad cost the ad network triple the amount they got paid to display it. Corporations are psychopathic by design, if you want to fix them you need to make it an actual financial risk to do something bad.

And then heck, if you want to make stopping the original bad actors more effective, make the platforms pay up those damages but empower them to recover that loss if they can get it from the malicious advertiser.

You'll see platforms doing more vetting of content, doing more KYC, and focused on reducing their own risk.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#148

Post by colesantiago »

jcelerier wrote: post #135

I'm amazed to discover that there are people on earth that believe that some ads aren't scam. It should be forbidden by law to advertise, it is a scourge on humanity.

I agree.

I clicked on the daring fireball link and immediately saw an intrusive ad.

They are just everywhere, the web was never like this in the beginning.

A complete scourge.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#149

Post by forinti »

meindnoch wrote: post #142

All ads are scams. Some are worse than others.

In the 1980's TV ads in Uruguay were really simple. Some were just a static bi-colour image of a shoe or a coat, some text, and a voice would say "buy shoes at such shop at such address".

I guess that was at the same time the low point of marketing and also its most honest stage.

Re: I now assume that all ads on Apple news are scams

#150

Post by pbronez »

esskay wrote: post #141
ksec wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever since Apple moved to Services Strategy in 2014 it has been like this. Services were not there so they could provide a better experience for its " customers ". I use the word " customer " here which is what Apple / Steve Jobs used to call their loyal fans, and not user . But to further growth their Revenue pie because they foresee iPhone one day will stagnant. You now have Apple Fitness+, Apple TV, News, Music, A…

Arcade is comically poor value. I can't tell if Apple doesn't care, or they're just so deluded due to their insular nature and crap attitude towards gaming that they genuinely think its a good service to offer mediocre mobile games for a premium.

I thought the same until my kids started playing iPad games. Apple Arcade is way better than the baseline of aggressive ads and micro transactions.
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