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TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

nytimes.com

141–150 of 568 posts

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#141
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it worse than walking around 8 hours a day listening to music? Having headphones on while washing dishes and walking the dog? I think it is, but it's hard for me to articulate without getting into teleological judgments.

When it's a streaming service, it might be equally worse IMO, but a bit less so if it's music you own. But anyways, I call these folks "electro autists" (with apologies to real autists) as they are rarely reachable for social interactions. Saying "good morning" in the elevator? No chance. Nor recognizing people left or right. Or in the gym, where they block machines for many minutes, i.e. much more than the one or tw…

> When it's a streaming service, it might be equally worse IMO, but a bit less so if it's music you own.

That's what I was thinking about when I mentioned teleological arguments. A stream is programmed by somebody else and who knows if they are trying to please me or their partners. I do use music streaming services, but these days I try to listen to entire albums.

I get what you are saying about wearing headphones in public places. I have ear buds that have a fantastic transparent mode where I get a mix of music and outside noises sent to my ears. As soon as I start talking, it pauses the music. In theory, you would be able to ask me to press the elevator button for you but having ear buds in usually communicates do-not-disturb.

That video is great and I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for linking it.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#142
post #71

I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. Growing up, I had to go to the theater to see movies, but that didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling. Now we binge entire Netflix series and that's fine, but short-form video needs government intervention? The real question is: where do we draw the line between protecting people from manipulative design and respecti…

You are not acknowledging the fact that the companies producing these addictive apps are very much doing it intentionally. They are specifically making it as engaging as possible because that's how they make money . And they have billions of dollars to sink into making their products as irresistable as possible. The average person has zero chance against all-pervasive, ultra-manipulative, highly-engineered systems li…

It's also very much an exercise in framing, though. Making your media as engaging as possible is the basic imperative of any media company. But choosing to call this specific instance of it "addictive" has everyone up in arms.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#143
post #71

I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. Growing up, I had to go to the theater to see movies, but that didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling. Now we binge entire Netflix series and that's fine, but short-form video needs government intervention? The real question is: where do we draw the line between protecting people from manipulative design and respecti…

What an unworldly remark. So, we should also not ban hard-drugs then?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#145
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think im just less prone to doomscroll type addictions, but i found myself sitting on the toilet for longer than normal when youtube shorts became something tougher to easily remove from the base youtube experience on their app. This caused me to disable the youtube app(literally can't uninstall it on a pixel stock os), and if i ever utilize youtube on my phone its through firefox instead. I also got the extension…

personally I haven't used tiktok ever but Instagram reels are the real thing however, I must say that youtube shorts is the worst of the bunch, even if I'm trying to be entertained, it's full of just slop spam and "top 5" or something that I'm not interested in, while reels are actually funny I remember I'd sometimes try and get into it, scrolling just to see if I can find one thing that's actually good and just quit…

Tiktok, Instagram reels, Facebook reels/shorts, YouTube Shorts ... to me these are all equally bad. I'm sure there are many other sources of attention destruction.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#146
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are way too comfortable banning things these days. This is where the term 'nanny state' comes from. A subset of the population doesn't have self control? Ban it everyone. Even if it's a wildly popular form of entertainment with millions of creators sharing their lives, who cares we know better.

> A subset of the population doesn't have self control? Ban it everyone. Even if it's a wildly popular form of entertainment Like gambling?

or cigarettes?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#147
> On Friday, the regulators released a preliminary decision that TikTok’s infinite scroll, auto-play features and recommendation algorithm amount to an “addictive design” that violated European Union laws for online safety.

How is this any different from Reddit? From Instagram? Why single out TikTok?

Applying laws unevenly is a form of discrimination.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#148
What other instances of "we did our job as little too well" are there?

I can think of tabacco and other drugs, but that's not really the same. Monopolistic behavior doesn't really fit either. Maybe Kleenex marketing doing so well their name became interchangeable with the word "tissue"?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#149
I do think it's addictive, but also the very idea of media in general is to keep you around. Television channels try to display content their viewers enjoy, but they can only target broadly. The web allows sites to have way more personal recommendations, but banning it is essentially banning sites because people enjoy it too much.

I think short form content especially is basically brain rot, but I also don't know how you ban something simply because it's too good at providing content people enjoy. The result would just be a worse experience across the board, is that a win?

I guess a forced 5s video saying take a break after 20 minutes of doom scrolling wouldn't be the end of the world, but truely making it illegal doesn't make sense.

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