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European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

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Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#141

Post by stronglikedan »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #133

Someone once said to me, be very careful about negotiating with leverage… when you twist someone’s arm, they’ll say, “I’ll remember that. You may have won this one, but I’m gonna win the next one.” Sadly, the US has done this to ourselves… all this arm twisting and strong-manning is coming home to roost. It’s not clear that patchwork EU government back offices migrating off Teams will hurt US tech, but long term, in…

> Sadly, the US has done this to ourselves… all this arm twisting and strong-manning is coming home to roost.

No it's not. This is theater to give the impression that they are "getting the orange buffoon". They'll be back in short order, and even if they aren't, it'll just be an insignificant blip on a financial chart somewhere, not even big enough to warrant someone's attention. They did similar things in Trump's first term, and came back groveling.

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#142

Post by vovavili »

Arathorn wrote: post #96
yabones wrote: post #39

My team started using Matrix/Element after years of frustration with Teams and Slack. It's far from perfect, but using a simple application with no built-in ads, AI, bloat, crap, etc is wonderful. I really hope the EU throws some serious money at them to get the bugs worked out, add some minor features, and clean up the UX enough that an "office normie" can onboard as easily as MS. My dream is that Matrix can do for…

> It's far from perfect, but using a simple application with no built-in ads, AI, bloat, crap, etc is wonderful. I think there are three main reasons it's not perfect yet: 1. Building both a decentralised open standard (Matrix) at the same time as a flagship implementation (Element) is playing on hard mode: everything has to be specified under an open governance process ( https://spec.matrix.org/proposals ) so that t…

God speed and thank you for your work. We need a professional world without the hellish Teams-Slack duopoly.

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#143

Post by codethief »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #133

Someone once said to me, be very careful about negotiating with leverage… when you twist someone’s arm, they’ll say, “I’ll remember that. You may have won this one, but I’m gonna win the next one.” Sadly, the US has done this to ourselves… all this arm twisting and strong-manning is coming home to roost. It’s not clear that patchwork EU government back offices migrating off Teams will hurt US tech, but long term, in…

I hope you're right! I mean, at the level of personal relationships I fully agree[0]. However, institutions tend to be forgetful.

[0]: Someone once said to me something very similar to what you quoted: "Be nice to people. People will remember you. And they will gossip if they don't like you and you have wronged them. It's much easier to ruin your reputation with a single action done to a single person than to build up a good one."

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#144

Post by Esophagus4 »

stronglikedan wrote: post #141
Esophagus4 wrote: post #133

Someone once said to me, be very careful about negotiating with leverage… when you twist someone’s arm, they’ll say, “I’ll remember that. You may have won this one, but I’m gonna win the next one.” Sadly, the US has done this to ourselves… all this arm twisting and strong-manning is coming home to roost. It’s not clear that patchwork EU government back offices migrating off Teams will hurt US tech, but long term, in…

> Sadly, the US has done this to ourselves… all this arm twisting and strong-manning is coming home to roost. No it's not. This is theater to give the impression that they are "getting the orange buffoon". They'll be back in short order, and even if they aren't, it'll just be an insignificant blip on a financial chart somewhere, not even big enough to warrant someone's attention. They did similar things in Trump's fi…

Maybe, and you might be right. These might be one-off posturing things from the EU.

Sure, a few back office shifts to OpenOffice aren’t a big deal today, but I’m worried about where we are in 10, 20 years. There is no EU tech competition to us today, but who knows… tomorrow is a new day.

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#145

Post by kisamoto »

uyzstvqs wrote: post #47

This does not bode well. Matrix is honestly not good, as someone who has tried to use it. It's slow, janky, often unstable, and poorly standardized. My suggestion: https://threema.com/en/products/work (hosted) or https://zulip.com/ (OSS self-hosted).

Personally I've found Matrix significantly more user friendly than Threema work. Zulip I haven't used in anger so I can't comment on that but I've seen a few places that even open source they charge per user for things like notifications. Not ideal IMHO. There should be an option to replace notifications with a separate service.

It's hard to find a decent service that ticks all the boxes but I do sincerely hope that the EU can support Matrix to bring it up to the standard that we all deserve.

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#146

Post by kisamoto »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #133

Someone once said to me, be very careful about negotiating with leverage… when you twist someone’s arm, they’ll say, “I’ll remember that. You may have won this one, but I’m gonna win the next one.” Sadly, the US has done this to ourselves… all this arm twisting and strong-manning is coming home to roost. It’s not clear that patchwork EU government back offices migrating off Teams will hurt US tech, but long term, in…

> EU can’t out innovate US tech

why not?

Okay not today but China was known as the cheap copier and is now the innovator.

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#147

Post by b-mmxx »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #4

Help me here Why can’t a company in the EU make a secure video/voice chat app? There’s are EU companies that make teams alternatives: https://euroalternative.eu/alternatives/microsoft-teams Even if those don’t work SAP, Dassault, etc… make massively complex software and services across multiple verticals and could trivially ship a competitor

There is Wire with HQ in Berlin, Germany.

https://wire.com/en/

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#148

Post by JuniperMesos »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #54
uyzstvqs wrote: post #47

This does not bode well. Matrix is honestly not good, as someone who has tried to use it. It's slow, janky, often unstable, and poorly standardized. My suggestion: https://threema.com/en/products/work (hosted) or https://zulip.com/ (OSS self-hosted).

I've been running a Matrix homeserver for a couple of years now and I've never had any issues with it. Not saying Matrix is perfect, but it is not as bad as you are making it out to be either.

Have you never run into any issues with encrypted chats not syncing properly between different clients, or messages not getting transferred correctly between users on different homeservers because of federation issues? Or matrix clients attempting to do some action, spinning for a bit, and then failing with an error message with no details? Or searching for rooms not working correctly and the UI not being able to clearly tell you what is actually going on with the search? I set up a Matrix server relatively recently and these were all issues that came up pretty much immediately.

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#149

Post by moepstar »

chme wrote: post #120
uyzstvqs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Threema is Swiss, which is a regional EFTA member. It's end-to-end encrypted and the clients are open-source. Zulip has client-server encryption, which is fine if you control the server.

Threema is still vendor lock-in.

Wasn’t Threema sold this week or something?

https://comitiscapital.com/news/comitis-capital-announces-th...

Not sure what / if that changes anything, but presumably it will… sometime…

Re: European Commission Trials Matrix to Replace Teams

#150

Post by legulere »

jaredklewis wrote: post #67
yabones wrote: post #39

My team started using Matrix/Element after years of frustration with Teams and Slack. It's far from perfect, but using a simple application with no built-in ads, AI, bloat, crap, etc is wonderful. I really hope the EU throws some serious money at them to get the bugs worked out, add some minor features, and clean up the UX enough that an "office normie" can onboard as easily as MS. My dream is that Matrix can do for…

I don’t know much about Matrix. Maybe in this case the key is money. But having worked at various startups and enterprises, it is very common for lots of money and resources to thrown at projects and for little or no progress to be made. Money might be a necessary condition but it’s definitely not a sufficient one. See Microsoft teams. Again I know nothing about Matrix, but I found your comment about UX concerning. U…

> UX is a problem that is almost immune to money

Usability testing seems like something where you can get better UX with a lot of money: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-testing-101/

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