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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#141

Post by alamortsubite »

spicyusername wrote: post #3

Such a shame that so many U.S. citizens do not see the ramifications of their political decisions. Each one of these actions is a stepping stone the world is taking as a direct consequence of U.S. political negligence. And however difficult it was to render this consequence, it will be tenfold, or hundredfold, as difficult to reverse course.

I remember a conversation I had with my uncle before the 2024 election during which I told him Donald Trump's leadership would result in a no-less-disastrous American version of Brexit, if he were somehow elected a second time. My uncle's an avid Fox News/Newsmax watcher, and had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#142

Post by lotsofpulp »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #129
lotsofpulp wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting for a traitorous convicted felon is why I can't stand federal level Republican voters. What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? For the record, I abhor my non federal level Democrat leaders, and vote Republican on the state and local level (because they are less crazy than the Democrats at this level).

> What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? If your position is that racism and sexism are the root of the problem — which I am not contesting — how wise do you think it was for the Democrats to try running with a black woman?

Obviously, it was not wise. Hope they don't make the same mistake again.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#143

Post by maelito »

anon291 wrote: post #118
quadrifoliate wrote: post #111

This needs to go much, much further before it is even mildly effective. The EU has a population of ~450 million (more than the US) and no significant large technology companies. They are largely dependent on US Big Tech as a population. I love that there is a lot more enthusiasm about OSS adoption within EU software devs, but at a population or government level there doesn't appear to be any coherent strategy to grad…

OSS software is also mostly owned by the US. This entire thing of 'replacing' American software with American software under a different commercial model is so silly.

The problem is not ownership. It's dev force. We're not bad here in europe, not bad at all.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#144

Post by nradov »

adventured wrote: post #82
spicyusername wrote: post #3

Such a shame that so many U.S. citizens do not see the ramifications of their political decisions. Each one of these actions is a stepping stone the world is taking as a direct consequence of U.S. political negligence. And however difficult it was to render this consequence, it will be tenfold, or hundredfold, as difficult to reverse course.

The French have created Mintel. May the world tremble. It's a shame the Americans don't see the ramifications of their political decisions.

Why did the French never follow up and improve Minitel?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#145

Post by bborud »

anon291 wrote: post #122
quadrifoliate wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shame that so many EU citizens do not see the ramifications of theirs . EU citizens have elected ineffective leaders for decades -- leaders that ignored the potential to set up homegrown cloud providers, software suites or tech companies. They have elected leaders who were until very recently heavily dependent on Russian energy. As a result, EU dependence on US tech is near-total. I remember hearing a few months ago…

Europe's main strategy these days seems to be blaming others instead of looking at themselves. For example, they blame America for their own issue of lacking tech companies, despite Europe taking credit for having fewer work hours, more 'equitable' societies, etc. They blame China for their own issue of lacking domestic manufacturing, despite their pride at having strong unions, supposedly good labor protections, and…

You are framing this as moral blame. It isn't about that. It is about strategic risk.

Why would we blame the US for our own inability to build a viable software industry? Europe has been painfully aware for years that this is self-inflicted.

The reason there is now serious talk about reducing dependence on the US is not resentment, it is risk. Dependence used to be a convenience. It is increasingly a liability. Trust in long-term stability, rule continuity, and alignment of interests is no longer something we can assume. That changes the calculus, regardless of who is "at fault".

From the perspective of someone who works in software, I’m glad this conversation is finally happening. It’s not about assigning blame. It is about taking responsibility for capabilities we should never have outsourced so completely in the first place.

If this looks like blame from the outside, that’s a misunderstanding of what self-correction looks like.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#146

Post by andix »

pelagicAustral wrote: post #2

Refreshing. No more Teams? Sounds like a dream... Of all the crapware I am forced to work with, Teams really pushes the envelope in every single negative way conceivable. I think I have more love for SharePoint than Teams, and that is a massive concession.

I don't have a lot of complaints with the current version of teams. Messaging and video calls work without major issues. It's bloated, and all those plugins are usually bad, but the basics work well for me.

The new Outlook app is horrible though.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#147

Post by TulliusCicero »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #93
spicyusername wrote: post #3

Such a shame that so many U.S. citizens do not see the ramifications of their political decisions. Each one of these actions is a stepping stone the world is taking as a direct consequence of U.S. political negligence. And however difficult it was to render this consequence, it will be tenfold, or hundredfold, as difficult to reverse course.

Shame that so many EU citizens do not see the ramifications of theirs . EU citizens have elected ineffective leaders for decades -- leaders that ignored the potential to set up homegrown cloud providers, software suites or tech companies. They have elected leaders who were until very recently heavily dependent on Russian energy. As a result, EU dependence on US tech is near-total. I remember hearing a few months ago…

Yup. Culturally, the EU has favored more regulations over supporting more tech growth to an absurd degree.

Not that I disagree in principle with most of the tech regulations; it does make sense to protect privacy and combat monopolistic abuses and so on.

But you also need to support your own tech industry at the same time, and the efforts there have been like quarter-assed at most.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#148

Post by lotsofpulp »

Nextgrid wrote: post #128
lotsofpulp wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting for a traitorous convicted felon is why I can't stand federal level Republican voters. What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? For the record, I abhor my non federal level Democrat leaders, and vote Republican on the state and local level (because they are less crazy than the Democrats at this level).

> Voting for a traitorous convicted felon The Epstein revelations show that pretty much everyone that could make it to the ballot list has skeletons in their closet. The only difference is that some of them manage to hide it better than others.

I doubt that, but in reality, Harris was on the ballot, and was squeaky clean relative to her opposition.

And there's levels of skeletons, but calling up a governor and asking them to find votes and baselessly casting doubts on elections and endorsing and freeing people who attacked the US government is not on the same level of everyone else's skeletons.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#149

Post by starkparker »

badc0ffee wrote: post #80
emsign wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they believe it will lead to economic prosperity and good jobs returning to their community. Maybe they say that but it's justification for their racist believes, which they still don't want to talk openly about. It just sounds better when someone invents some "benefits" of it. Like wild claims in an ad is helping the buyer justify their impulse shopping.

70 million Americans voted for him. His biggest demographic win compared to the last election was non-white men. Immediately dismissing this as racism isn't going to help you understand it, or help the Democrats beat the Republicans.

Notable and recent: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clym85ev64lo

> When one-time Democrat Sam Negron headed to the polls to cast a ballot for Donald Trump in 2024, he did so with one thing on his mind above all - the economy.

> "I didn't like paying $7 for eggs," said Negron, a Pennsylvania state constable in the majority-Latino city of Allentown. "But basically it was all his talking points… making the US a strong country again."

...

> One poll, from Pew, suggested that 93% of Latinos who cast their votes for Trump rated the economy as their primary issue, with violent crime and immigration trailing far behind.

> Data from the new CBS poll shows that a significant majority of Latinos - 61% - disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy, while 69% disapprove of his handling of inflation. The vast majority said they judge the performance of the US economy through prices.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#150

Post by soperj »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #137
pelagicAustral wrote: post #2

Refreshing. No more Teams? Sounds like a dream... Of all the crapware I am forced to work with, Teams really pushes the envelope in every single negative way conceivable. I think I have more love for SharePoint than Teams, and that is a massive concession.

The risk is of course that the new thing might be worse than Teams somehow.

The only possibility is if you get it from Oracle instead.
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