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How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

nytimes.com

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Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#141

Post by cthalupa »

kreetx wrote: post #57
andrewjf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda. The actual videos do not support this conclusion at all. You’re being lied to.

I've seen the actual videos. While tragic, then she was trying to drive away, not obeying the approaching officer's orders. At that moment, the officer towards she was driving was the one that shot her. It also seemed that right before the event she was doing some kind of traffic regulation there which is why the officers approached her.

Do you think the shots through the driver window, after the agent was 100% out of the way of the vehicle, were justified?

From the medical examiner we know it was one of these two shots that killed her. We know they did not come in through the front windshield when the agent was at the front quarter panel. We see them clearly occur on video while the officer is definitively out of the path of the vehicle.

It also is quite clear from the results that shooting her did not make the situation safer after he was clear, either - it directly causes the car to accelerate while not under the control of a living human being.

Personally, I would still argue about even the first shot - but I have yet to be able to find any common ground in discussions with people that defend the 2nd and 3rd shot.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#142

Post by cthalupa »

kreetx wrote: post #84
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk about America yet don't understand our most basic concept of law. "These people just haven't been convicted - yet." is so fucking anti-American it's crazy to see someone just drop it as a rebuttal here. You added that after your claim: "ICE is also deporting mostly criminals" You then try to wordsmith criminal into to 'illegal immigrants'. These people are being deported on Civil law violations. Not criminal…

Right. The original poster who was saying that only ("only"!) 29% of January deportees have been convicted, that is correct. To this I added that that percentage doesn't account for ongoing charges (also true, right?). No disagreement in the percentage arguments. The rest of the immigrants are still illegally in the country, no? Wasn't deporting them on the campaign platform that got the mandate? What is "the system"…

What mandate? Trump did not secure a large enough victory for anyone to reasonably claim he was handed a mandate. Did the Republicans ever respect Biden's "mandate" on his issues, with a similar EV victory and a huge popular vote victory? Hell, Trump didn't even get half the popular vote.

Nor do single issues get mandates even when a president does have an overwhelming victory. Voters do not select specific issues to vote on, they vote for a person based on their overall platform.

Trump also talked about how he was going to focus on deporting violent criminals. And now that that is no longer the case, the goalpost is being moved to... any crimes. And now again to anyone that has outstanding charges, but no conviction. And now it's hey, they're here illegally, so that's a crime, right! We'll have to ignore the fact that a good chunk of those being deported also entered using a legal process that puts them in limbo - ICE has been grabbing people showing up at their immigration court cases.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#143

Post by snowwrestler »

15155 wrote: post #115
snowwrestler wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with flying Mexican flags. Americans fly flags of other countries all the time. There are English flags all over a nearby pub in my area. Heck, there is an entire national holiday for celebrating the Irish—a holiday for which the Defense Department made an exception to its policy of avoiding cultural observances. The overreach by the current administration is what is driving the volu…

[flagged]

Have a margarita and some tacos!

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#144

Post by culi »

46493168 wrote: post #111

If you work for L3Harris, TechOps Specialty Vehicles (TOSV), Clearview AI, Paragon Solutions, AE Industrial, RedLattice, Magnet Forensics, Grayshift, Penlink, Flock Safety, Ring, LexisNexis, or Palantir, you are a fascist.

You may also enjoy this in-depth video about other tech companies that profit from death

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvsR9ojQ66E

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#145

Post by 46493168 »

culi wrote: post #144
46493168 wrote: post #111

If you work for L3Harris, TechOps Specialty Vehicles (TOSV), Clearview AI, Paragon Solutions, AE Industrial, RedLattice, Magnet Forensics, Grayshift, Penlink, Flock Safety, Ring, LexisNexis, or Palantir, you are a fascist.

You may also enjoy this in-depth video about other tech companies that profit from death https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvsR9ojQ66E

Please list the companies! I’m keeping it in a file and making sure I am not connected to any of them.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#146

Post by nerdsniper »

mindslight wrote: post #107
zzzeek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

laws need to be enforced. that's it. 90% of trump horror goes away with just that simple thing

Sure, but how do the laws get enforced when law enforcement itself has gone rogue? State governors can't deploy their branches of the National Guard to restore Constitutional law and order without risking that the corrupt federal executive will end up taking control of those as well.

Congress is supposed to remove ineffective executives from power, or change the laws/constitution to make the enforcement legal. Some would say they're abdicating those responsibilities.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#148

Post by Herring »

palmotea wrote: post #112
Herring wrote: post #79

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. htt…

> The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons...…

A lot of western societies are aging. If you don’t import immigrants, you’re on a timer. The economy slows, quality of life drops, and people elect the far right anyway. It’s happening to Japan right now. I’d set up the safety nets and hope enough people will appreciate the better cost of living and reelect sane politicians.

Of course there are no guarantees. People hated Obamacare and punished democrats so hard they lost the most seats since Eisenhower.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#149

Post by mindslight »

kreetx wrote: post #137
mindslight wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As I said, you're starting at a point where the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her." You keep coming back to this point in time, to the exclusion of everything that led up to it. Why?

Because the alledged pretext assumes being able to predict the future.

Are you claiming it is impossible for an ICE agent to think "I'm just going to shoot the next person who tries to drive away" or what?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#150

Post by Herring »

cmxch wrote: post #104
Herring wrote: post #79

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. htt…

If you want to bring in something from the overall European region, Switzerland would be a more appropriate model. Instead of trying to implement constitutionally impossible rules and mandates, work with a model that is more realistic to US policies and expectations.

> High trust, consensus governance

Yeah I don’t see that happening here either. Maybe in some rich areas, like tech/finance hubs, operating like mini-Switzerlands. Even then, the poor will keep voting for disruption, so those hubs will need private security vs the federal government? I just don’t see how this is possible or at all desirable. I think we have to tackle inequality……

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