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My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

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141–150 of 160 posts

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#141
post #110

> she said she was aware that DeepSeek had given her contradictory advice. She understood that chatbots were trained on data from across the internet, she told me, and did not represent an absolute truth or superhuman authority With highly lucid people like the author's mom I'm not too worried about Dr. Deepseek. I'm actually incredibly bullish on the fact that AI models are, as the article describes, superhumanly em…

My experience with doctors in the US is that they often not only give you contradictory advice but just bad plain advice with complete lack of common sense. It feels like they are regurgitating medical school textbooks without a context window. I truly believe doctors, most specialists and definitely all general practitioners, are easily replaceable with the tech we have today. The only obstacle is regulations, insur…

Yeah it's bad. That doesn't mean it's necessarily uniformly bad. But if it's bad where you are, yeah it's bad.

You can see multiple doctors (among the ones you're allowed to see by your insurance). The doctors are all in an echo chamber which reinforces their thinking. Their cognitive load and goal seeking is burdened by what they can determine they can bill insurance for (there is still no price transparency). You don't have a "regular" / primary care physician because they rotate through the provider network constantly.

Symptoms which don't fit the diagnosis are ignored / dealt with by deflecting that you should "see your regular physician". "Stare decisis" rules the second opinion. In their minds they believe they have no place to write down e.g. drug interactions with things which they didn't prescribe and don't believe in (the one time I got a call from quality control working for the umbrella organization I utilized this as an example of why I was looking for a different doctor and the QA person, who was, they said, a licensed nurse, said "they can add that to the record, I'll do it right now").

You might get fired as a patient for passing out or having a seizure during a blood draw, hard to say whether that's because they failed to follow SOP and call the meatwagon or because you upset staff by acting unusually. You might get into a conversation with a physician which goes strange and they end up telling you that their clinic gets health inspections like a restaurant... they don't. There's a "wet work" inspection (just like a butcher shop) before occupancy is allowed, but there's no posted inspection report because... there is no inspection! But there's more. There are relatively "safe" and common procedures which still have ooopsies and people end up in the hospital or die. The hospitalization rate might be 1:5000 and the death rate 1:100000 but if you do a million of these there are going to be a few. If the procedure took place in a clinic it's supposed to be reported, and the reports are public record; but surprise surprise, the reported rates for serious complications are far far below what the actuarial tables show.

If you're seeing constellations of incidents similar to these, you need to get a second opinion from somewhere / somebody who is not caught up in that particular bubble. It can be very hard to see what's happening, and also to find a measurable proxy for "in / not in the bubble".

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you aren't aware that a huge amount of human behaviors that look like empathy and patience are not real either. Do you really think all those kind-seeming call-center workers, waitresses, therapists, schoolteachers, etc. actually feel what they're showing? It's mostly an act. Look at how adults fake laughter for an obvious example of popular human emotion-faking.

Its more than that, this pile of numbers argument is really odd. I feel its hard to square this strange idea that piles of numbers are "lesser" than humans unless they are admitting belief in the supernatural .

That too. Supernatural is our only explanation for what makes a human mind special compared to a same-behavior computer.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#144
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries with public healthcare + doctor shortages (e.g. Canada), good luck even getting a family doctor, let alone having a request to switch you family doctor "when you already have one!" get taken seriously. Everyone I know just goes to walk-in clinics / urgent-care centres. And neither of those options give doctors any "skin in the game." Or any opportunities for follow-up. Or any ongoing context for evaluati…

The US has the same issue. Because the republican party turned out to be a bunch of fascist fucks, there's no real critique of Obamacare. One of the big changes with the ACA is that it allowed medical networks to turn into regional cartels. Most regions have 2-3 medical networks, who are gobbled up all of the medical practices and closed many. Most of the private general practices have been bought up, consolidated to…

Perhaps you are not aware, but Obamacare is actually Romneycare. It is set up exactly in the way Republicans wanted, instead of a single-payer system that the general public and especially the Democrats voters wanted. So why would Republicans critique the system that gave Insurance companies even more money?

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#145
post #122

I don't understand: if there is a shortage of doctors, why are we trying to solve that by training AI models modelled on influencers that spits out (hopefully improving) advice at 10x the rate of a human doctor? Is it impossible for highly advanced societies like ours to pay more for people to get trained as doctors, nurses or whatever is missing? Or to convince them to choose a profession that deals with other human…

Shortages of doctors have many causes that differ based on the country. While paying them more may help in some countries you also have to figure out how to convince doctors to live in smaller towns and cities and in less desirable provinces/states within a country. The source of the problem is that doctors are people and people have their own preferences and motivations for doing the things they do. Trying to convin…

If we trained a larger number of doctors market forces would reduce their price and also make more of them willing to work in less profitable places.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#146
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's still tempting to say "thank you" after the LLM generates a response which I found helpful I don't think it's helpful because I don't interact with objects.

it says more about you than the objects in question, because it's natural to react empathetically to natural sounding conversation, and if you don't, you're emotionally closer to that object than avg person. Whether to be proud of that or not is another question.

No, I have a clear distinction between objects and human beings.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#147
post #41

I'm reminded of the monologue from Terminator 2: > Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The Terminator would never stop, it would never leave him... it would always be there. And it would never hurt him, never shout at him or get drunk and hit him, or say it couldn't spend time with him because it was too busy. And it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over th…

But the top of their game includes them make things up and getting things wrong. They always give their best, but they always include mistakes. It's a different trust proposition to a human.

A real, actual doctor told my brother, who has a chronic headache disorder, to just keep taking OTC painkillers.

You very specifically should not do that; you'll develop a medication overuse headache and be worse off than you were.

It gets worse, though. I was able to ask them a few questions about their symptoms, compare them to entries in the International Classification of Headache Disorders, and narrow it down to, iirc, two likely possibilities.

One of them was treatable. The treatment works. They still have pain, but can do stuff.

An AI that makes stuff up and gets stuff wrong isn't any different from the doctors we already have, except you can afford to get a second opinion, and you have the time available to push back and ask questions.

Edit: to expound on quality of the doctor - diagnosis and proposing a treatment was the work of several hours for me, a layman. A doctor should have known the ICHD existed. They should have been able to, in several minutes, ask questions about symptoms, reference the ICHD to narrow down likely diagnoses, and then propose a treatment with a "come back if that doesn't help".

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#149
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so, poor healthcare workforce quality is not just an "issue of an economically poor country", as I thought!? like, I tried to treat the bloating in one municipal clinic in Ternopil, Ukraine (got "just use Espumisan or anything else that has symeticone" and when it did not work out permanently, "we don't know what to do, just keep eating symeticone") and then with Gemini 3 (Pro or Flash depending on Google AI Studio r…

Over here it feels like there is a taboo among doctors to just tell people "you are fat and unhealthy, fix it", I guess since the idea is that this would discourage people from going to the doctor in the first place...

Ding ding ding!

It hard to make money off of "stop eating all that trash and exercise more".

Just look at all the GLP 1 craze going on. We can never seem to even imagine fixing things by "less", and always need something "more" to fix things.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#150
While the article emphasis on chaos and short time with China's doctor, they are very accessible, 2 USD you visit a fully trained doctor at top hospital, have your CT scan done the same day with 50 USD even if you pay out of packet.

As for AI, my personal experience is ChatGPT and Gemini is more effective then DeepSeek for healthcare issues. I do hope DeepSeek or Doubao can catch up.

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