141–150 of 221 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got to line 1500 before I gave up, what from that indicates they want to "extinguish" musl?
1. Support musl 2. Become mainstream with musl distros 3. Become dependency in practical terms 4. Then even software optimized for musl-based distros has to deal and support systemd
The reason Debian fell to the systemd behemoth is because its sysvinit scripts were already a complete disaster. Slackware and Gentoo, on the other hand, were able to stay clear of the mess because they had a decent implementation to begin with.
And Sysvinit was never the only place Debian kept its mess.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it someone's else's fault for that systemd has dependencies or that others depend on systemd? If I use and like Firefox, and others depend on Firefox, or Firefox depend on others, then it's Firefox fault for you choosing Firefox? I really don't understand the argument you're trying to make. You had choices before systemd, and you still have choices even though systemd is widespread, what's the problem? It isn'…
OK you're missing the historical context here. To make this story extremely short, the author of Systemd was already known for another project that was causing problems to Linux users but was shipped early. And when Systemd was released, it has several issues, too, so some distros like Debian withheld the switch. But at some point the folks at Red Hat decided to tie Systemd to the login mechanism for Gnome. I don't b…
With this new knowledge about the history, I still feel the same as the original question. AFAIK, no one is forcing people/distributions to adopt systemd. It might be easier, and most takes the easiest route, but that's OK, right? That doesn't mean that you cannot make another choice, maybe involving more work, but you can still make that choice, unless again I miss something obvious here.
Debian without systemd is a good start. Now, do Debian without dpkg, and you may finally be getting somewhere. The reason Debian fell to the systemd behemoth is because its sysvinit scripts were already a complete disaster. Slackware and Gentoo, on the other hand, were able to stay clear of the mess because they had a decent implementation to begin with. And Sysvinit was never the only place Debian kept its mess.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you build remote attestation into your product, corporate entities will require it. Just look at Android - What phones today give you unlimited root? If you have rooted, what applications have you broken? If you root, what e-fuses have you blown in your CPU meaning it can never be un-rooted? Android, at the start, was open and freely modified - not so much anymore. Companies like Google can and have cut off access…
I think phones are a completely different beast though (and already a lost cause), PCs seems a lot more resilient to that sort of lock down. But on the other hand, you might be right, you never know how the future looks. But personally I'll wait until there is at least some signal that it's moving in that direction, before I start prepping for it to actually happening.
* Literally every game console
* Literally every smartphone
* Microsoft, with their Win11 requirements, is moving there
* John Deere (read on their own hardware attestation efforts to block DIY)
* Car companies (require specialized tooling and software subscriptions to make certain repairs)
* Anything that requires a signed bootloader and signed software updates
* Snapdragon CPUs and e-fuses that burn when you use unsigned software, and brick
* Apple hardware, literally crypto-signed so you can't use aftermarket parts
* Google Chromecast
* Amazon Kindle, locked hardware
* IBM has locked hardware to their laptops for *years*. Ever try upgrading a wifi card in an IBM laptop? They're already invested in this
Earlier quoted context omitted.
With everything depending on systemd interfaces, its an exhausting uphill battle to run anything desktop-like without systemd. Want to run xterm? Requires Xorg. rootless Xorg requires udev, udev turned into a systemd component. want to run xterm without systemd? good luck, you are now the maintainer of your own LFS.
Yeah, it’s miserable; xterm shouldn’t require Xorg. It should be agnostic to display system and not force the X monoculture on everyone. Classic Microsoft gestapo tactics: shoehorn Xorg dependencies into tons of unrelated apps and thus curtail user freedom to run xterm with a WinForms or Wayland display system. It’s appalling.
Debian without systemd is a good start. Now, do Debian without dpkg, and you may finally be getting somewhere. The reason Debian fell to the systemd behemoth is because its sysvinit scripts were already a complete disaster. Slackware and Gentoo, on the other hand, were able to stay clear of the mess because they had a decent implementation to begin with. And Sysvinit was never the only place Debian kept its mess.
Yeah, that's why Slackware and Gentoo have a much larger userbase than Debian :-D
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think phones are a completely different beast though (and already a lost cause), PCs seems a lot more resilient to that sort of lock down. But on the other hand, you might be right, you never know how the future looks. But personally I'll wait until there is at least some signal that it's moving in that direction, before I start prepping for it to actually happening.
Everything else has moved in that direction: * Literally every game console * Literally every smartphone * Microsoft, with their Win11 requirements, is moving there * John Deere (read on their own hardware attestation efforts to block DIY) * Car companies (require specialized tooling and software subscriptions to make certain repairs) * Anything that requires a signed bootloader and signed software updates * Snapdrag…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it someone's else's fault for that systemd has dependencies or that others depend on systemd? If I use and like Firefox, and others depend on Firefox, or Firefox depend on others, then it's Firefox fault for you choosing Firefox? I really don't understand the argument you're trying to make. You had choices before systemd, and you still have choices even though systemd is widespread, what's the problem? It isn'…
OK you're missing the historical context here. To make this story extremely short, the author of Systemd was already known for another project that was causing problems to Linux users but was shipped early. And when Systemd was released, it has several issues, too, so some distros like Debian withheld the switch. But at some point the folks at Red Hat decided to tie Systemd to the login mechanism for Gnome. I don't b…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
With everything depending on systemd interfaces, its an exhausting uphill battle to run anything desktop-like without systemd. Want to run xterm? Requires Xorg. rootless Xorg requires udev, udev turned into a systemd component. want to run xterm without systemd? good luck, you are now the maintainer of your own LFS.
Yeah, it’s miserable; xterm shouldn’t require Xorg. It should be agnostic to display system and not force the X monoculture on everyone. Classic Microsoft gestapo tactics: shoehorn Xorg dependencies into tons of unrelated apps and thus curtail user freedom to run xterm with a WinForms or Wayland display system. It’s appalling.
It just so happens that until recently xorg was the only game in town as far as Linux x11 servers are concerned.