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Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

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Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#141

Post by xvokcarts »

Klaster_1 wrote: post #18
snek_case wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the early 2000s Wikipedia used to fill that role. Now it's like you have an encyclopedia that you can talk to. What I'm slightly worried about is that eventually they are going to want to monetize LLMs more and more, and it's not going to be good, because they have the ability to steer the conversation towards trying to get you to buy stuff.

One of the approaches to this that I haven't seen being talked about on HN at all is LLM as public infrastructure by the government. I think EU can pull this off. This also addresses overall alignment and compute-poverty issue. I wouldn't mind if my taxes paid for that instead of a ChatGPT subscription.

That's because a government-run LLM would be like government-run media.

High inflation? No, the government LLM will tell us we're doing great.

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#142

Post by marbro »

squidbeak wrote: post #118
Nevermark wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a good idea at all. Government should not be in a position to directly and pervasively shape people’s understanding of the world. That would be the infinite regress opposite of a free (in a completely different sense) press. A non-profit providing an open data and training regime for an open WikiBrain would be nice. With standard pricing for scaled up use.

> Government should not be in a position to directly and pervasively shape people’s understanding of the world. You disagree with national curricula, state broadcasters, publicly funded research and public information campaigns?

[dead]

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#143

Post by nchmy »

tehjoker wrote: post #84
teiferer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coffee is a universally available, productivity enhancing commodity The analogy carries further than you intended. If you have never reached addiction stage, then there is no factual productivity enhancement. "But I'm so much less productive if I haven't had my morning coffee" Yeah, because you have an addiction. It sounds worse than it is, if you just don't drink coffee for a few days the headaches will subside. B…

I'm not so sure. The stimulation can also self-medicate for people with attention issues. I've tried quitting coffee before for weeks and I get so spacey it is difficult to work on major projects. I try coffee again and suddenly I feel quite capable. Perhaps I didn't quit long enough, but at this point after multiple attempts quitting with similar results, I've just accepted it.

Because you haven't detoxed long enough. Try 1-2 months - you'll be shocked by the clarity, stability in energy, better sleep etc

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#144

Post by nchmy »

normie3000 wrote: post #24
gradus_ad wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best existing "product" analogy for LLM's is coffee. Coffee is a universally available, productivity enhancing commodity. There are some varieties certainly, but at the end of the day, a bean is a bean. It will get the job done. Many love it, many need it, but it doesn't really cost all that much. Where people get fancy is in all the fancy but unnecessary accoutrements for the brewing of coffee. Some choo…

Enjoyable analogy. > Some choose to spend a lot on appliances that let you brew at home rather than relying on some external provider. This makes it sound like buying brewed coffee is the budget option. But the real budget option I've seen is to brew at home. Almost any household will have an appliance to boil water. Then add instant coffee. I don't understand why, but in my experience instant coffee seems to be the…

They're not talking about instant coffee, which is awful. And coffee-producing countries are poor, hence they drink dirty sugar water while the good stuff gets exported.

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#145

Post by nchmy »

normie3000 wrote: post #108
arctic-true wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that there are higher startup costs to brew at home. Even a cheap coffee machine is going to cost more than a cup of coffee at a diner, in the same way that a computer that can run a local LLM is going to cost more than a bunch of API calls to a commercial model. Eventually, those diner coffees add up, but you’re stuck with them if you can’t afford the coffee machine.

> Even a cheap coffee machine is going to cost more than a cup of coffee at a diner I think I understood but disagree - the cheapest "coffee machine" is a kettle or cooking pot.

Cowboy coffee can be excellent. It's almost literally what professional coffee tasters do when they do "cuppings".

A French press just adds fine mesh. You don't even need the glass jar - literally a jar or any other vessel would work

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#146

Post by anon_anon12 »

snek_case wrote: post #4
Klaster_1 wrote: post #2

This article matches my experience as well. Chatting with LLM has helped me to crystalize ideas I had before and explore relevant topics to widen the understanding. Previously, I wouldn't even know where to begin with when getting curious about something, but ChatGPT can tell you if your ideas have names, if they were explored previously, what primary sources there are. It's like a rabbit hole of exploring the world,…

In the early 2000s Wikipedia used to fill that role. Now it's like you have an encyclopedia that you can talk to. What I'm slightly worried about is that eventually they are going to want to monetize LLMs more and more, and it's not going to be good, because they have the ability to steer the conversation towards trying to get you to buy stuff.

I can envision this as being in the boots of Truman from Truman Show where some advertisement is thrown at your face randomly

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#147

Post by fennecbutt »

vjk800 wrote: post #103
pmarreck wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are going to want to monetize LLMs more and more Not only can you run reasonably intelligent models on recent relatively powerful PC's "for free", but advances are undoubtedly coming that will increase the efficient use of memory and CPU in these things- this is all still early-days Also, some of those models are "uncensored"

Can you? I imagine e.g. Google is using material not available to the public to train their models (unsencored Google books, etc.). Also, the chat bots, like Gemini, are not just pure LLMs anymore, but they also utilize other tools as part of their computation. I've asked Gemini computationally heavy questions and it successfully invokes Python scripts to answer them. I imagine it can also use other tools than Python…

Yes, because local models can run Internet search tools. Even the big boys like openai etc I prefer the results quality when it's made a search - and they seem to have realised this too, the majority of my queries now kick off searches.

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#148

Post by coffeefirst »

johnfn wrote: post #54
firefoxd wrote: post #42

Not to dismiss other people's experience, but thinking improves thinking. People tend to forget that you can ask yourself questions and try to answer them. There is such thing as recursive thinking where you end up with a new thought you didn't have before you started. Don't dismiss this superpower you have in your own head.

I'm mystified by this comment. Do people really forget that they can think in their own mind?

It’s as if people are rediscovering that writing is thinking. The chatbot is irrelevant, it works even better with a paper notebook.

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#149

Post by michaelbrave »

snek_case wrote: post #4
Klaster_1 wrote: post #2

This article matches my experience as well. Chatting with LLM has helped me to crystalize ideas I had before and explore relevant topics to widen the understanding. Previously, I wouldn't even know where to begin with when getting curious about something, but ChatGPT can tell you if your ideas have names, if they were explored previously, what primary sources there are. It's like a rabbit hole of exploring the world,…

In the early 2000s Wikipedia used to fill that role. Now it's like you have an encyclopedia that you can talk to. What I'm slightly worried about is that eventually they are going to want to monetize LLMs more and more, and it's not going to be good, because they have the ability to steer the conversation towards trying to get you to buy stuff.

I sort of already had an experience where it did kinda. I was consulting with it potential fashion choices to upgrade my work uniform, to look professional but still creative, basically to look more like a creative director. It recommended brands, colors, styles etc. Then I was asking about eyeglass frames showed it three pictures, described my facial features and it was like "you have to buy this one now" more enthusiastic than expected. It wasn't ads or anything but there was a bit of salesyness in there.

Re: Talking to LLMs has improved my thinking

#150

Post by Nevermark »

squidbeak wrote: post #118
Nevermark wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a good idea at all. Government should not be in a position to directly and pervasively shape people’s understanding of the world. That would be the infinite regress opposite of a free (in a completely different sense) press. A non-profit providing an open data and training regime for an open WikiBrain would be nice. With standard pricing for scaled up use.

> Government should not be in a position to directly and pervasively shape people’s understanding of the world. You disagree with national curricula, state broadcasters, publicly funded research and public information campaigns?

Given “national curricula” of a dominant democratic country are undergoing a politically motivated change, starting with significant web materials, and moving into education …

Do you prefer the previous narratives? The latter? Or whatever you are told?

And that is the risk of relatively static information.

What if your information source was interactive, adaptive and motivated? And could record and report on your interactions and viewpoints?

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