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On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

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Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#141

Post by asdff »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #114
seu wrote: post #34

I studied computer science and worked in and around software for a good 20+ years. Then I slowly started realizing how apolitical almost everyone around me in software was. I was fortunate to have had other influences and interests beyond CS, but it seemed like others didn't think much about society or politics, beyond how "great" everything could be made with tech. I started gravitating out of the software bubble. F…

>After a while I realized that it was extremely hard to find any job doing software that was not detrimental in general to the people or the planet. Pretty much all economic activity is detrimental to the planet. Your spending would have to be extremely low for you not to be part of the problem.

You can however reduce your impacts substantially relative to peers with trivial behavior changes. Switch to biking instead of driving for just half your trips and now you’ve essentially doubled your fuel efficiency without any technological advancement necessary.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#142

Post by senordevnyc »

_heimdall wrote: post #66
dash2 wrote: post #24

I predict that in 25 years (or 50 or 100): - human society will be even richer, more prosperous and more technologically advanced - people will still be desperately worrying that this is a time of crisis and collapse Let's see.

Wealth as we describe it today is effectively directly correlated with consumption of natural resources. Look up graphs of countries' GDP and oil consumption if you're ever curious. If society does continue to be richer and more prosperous, and those concepts aren't somehow fundamentally redefined, continued worry about crisis or collapse seems reasonable as that wealth came at the expense of further increase the amo…

If you're focused on oil consumption, is the issue "consumption of natural resources", or is the issue "energy"?

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#143

Post by asdff »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #118

What we needed, and still need, is mandatory time for all working citizens to be directly involved in federal government decisions. Something like jury duty for our national democracy. Yes, this does mean reducing one's freedom, but the benefits far outweigh seeing everything atrophy and collapse.

Jury duty is exactly why that shouldn’t happen. A lot of jurors want it to end early and will decide whatever seems expedient vs what is actually proper in light of the law and evidence.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#144

Post by asdff »

subpixel wrote: post #111

When reading about the multiple civil wars in the modern history of my wife’s native country I was really stumped by the formation of liberal and conservative “camps”. Basically the country was halved by people who detested and feared the other half - despite the foundational difference of opinion being largely invented. I’m less puzzled now.

Wait till you learn about racism

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#145

Post by AlecSchueler »

bell-cot wrote: post #58
AlecSchueler wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western governments have been mostly incapable of building housing and infrastructure. The reason we need non stop housing construction is because the underlying issue is capitalism's demand for infinite growth.

Millennia before Adam Smith was born, pretty much every human societies which built "houses" (be they crude tents, igloos, lean-tos, thatched huts, or whatever) made a point of building enough of those to house all their members. Capitalism has financialized housing, and that seems to be a major cause of the "can't actually build housing" problem.

> made a point of building enough of those to house all their members.

But populations were relatively stable until capitalism drove us towards the growth mindset.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#146

Post by rekabis »

tomaytotomato wrote: post #4

I think its a pessimistic outlook and I agree with the sentiment, but then I switch back to objectively how humanity has been historically and how far we have come, I can't stop thinking, "wow". Being in my 30s I remember Y2K, OZone layer diminishing and a rogue comet coming to wipe out humanity, but it didn't. This is survivor bias just like the examples in the lecture around wildfires and Covid are surely survivor…

> My wife does not like when I solve problems instead of just acknowledge the problem and say "that's a shame/sad/terrible", but I can't help it, we as engineers are wired to do solve problems, not just acknowledge them.

There is also a strong gender imbalance there, in that men have been evolutionarily hardwired as problem-solvers.

This is evidenced by the near-ubiquity of women who have been enraged by their male partners always trying to solve the problems that they bring up, when “solving” wasn’t even in the same universe of why they raised the issue.

It takes an immense amount of effort for most any man to just sit there and listen to a problem brought up by someone they care about, and to not offer up any solutions to that problem. Mainly because the only reason why any man would proactively confide in others with a problem is when they are actively soliciting for - or, at least being open to - advice on how to solve it. We simply cannot imagine why any proactive b*tching about a problem isn’t done explicitly for the purpose of finding a solution.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#148

Post by _heimdall »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #137
_heimdall wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it can specifically help to reverse course on the level of collective fear, yeah that may help. Though there is the risk there that high levels of fear may lead people to lash out at anyone singled out as the cause of panic or fear. I'd argue that dealing with the fear itself is more important, and safer, in the moment. Knowing and understanding the cause is more useful, and safer to deal with, after the panic or…

How are you going to get it to subside, without dealing with the cause? If the fear is being manufactured, you aren't going to get out of the crisis until whoever is causing it relents and stops, or until you block it. I mean, you could say "we're going to deal with this by teaching people not to be afraid of this stuff", but why not do interrupt the source as well?

Interrupting the source can work, I'm not saying that wouldn't help. I'd liken it to trauma care, sometimes you do need to just stop the bleeding first.

My point there was only that its risky. I see the risk on two fronts, in the moment its hard to recognize the root cause and there are some people who will take advantage of the fear to point "the mob", as it were, at the wrong cause for their own gain.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#149

Post by _heimdall »

senordevnyc wrote: post #142
_heimdall wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth as we describe it today is effectively directly correlated with consumption of natural resources. Look up graphs of countries' GDP and oil consumption if you're ever curious. If society does continue to be richer and more prosperous, and those concepts aren't somehow fundamentally redefined, continued worry about crisis or collapse seems reasonable as that wealth came at the expense of further increase the amo…

If you're focused on oil consumption, is the issue "consumption of natural resources", or is the issue "energy"?

Oil is a good example today, but not the only example or only one I would be concerned with.

Energy (oil, coal, etc) is a problem today and is highly correlated with our consumption, but that's mostly a side effect of how we've built economies for the last couple centuries rather than a fundamental link to oil.

Re: On Being a Human Being in the Time of Collapse (2022) [pdf]

#150

Post by gopher_space »

abraxas wrote: post #125
tomaytotomato wrote: post #4

I think its a pessimistic outlook and I agree with the sentiment, but then I switch back to objectively how humanity has been historically and how far we have come, I can't stop thinking, "wow". Being in my 30s I remember Y2K, OZone layer diminishing and a rogue comet coming to wipe out humanity, but it didn't. This is survivor bias just like the examples in the lecture around wildfires and Covid are surely survivor…

> The apocalypse is delayed, permanently That is your survivorship bias. There are societies that collapsed never to rebuild or became mere shadows of themselves. I'm not just talking complete collapses like the Easter Island or the Mayan civilization. In very recent past we witnessed the cultural collapse of Japan after their bubbles of the 1980s burst and derailed their economy. But the most spectacular collapse ha…

> There are societies that collapsed never to rebuild or became mere shadows of themselves.

Yeah but the people were still there. Collapse of a society is a change in people's point of view, not always (or just) fiery death for everyone. Armageddon is a change in social order.

To bring this closer to home; the dot-com bust wasn't really noticed by cash positive startups with clients in the real world. One person's collapse was another's Herman Miller and Ducati Monster sale.

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