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4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

the-berliner.com

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Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#141

Post by Xylakant »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #137
tharkun__ wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe don't make everyone responsible for the public roadway/sidewalk in front of their house and instead have the people that are responsible for all other things public roadway/sidewalk be responsible? Works elsewhere, why not in Germany, where taxes should actually be even better able to cover it? [yes I know people in Germany, even specifically in Berlin and no this is not a Berlin specific thing] Like where I…

>Or maybe don't make everyone responsible for the public roadway/sidewalk in front of their house and instead have the people that are responsible for all other things public roadway/sidewalk be responsible? Here in New York the problem is opposite. Every home and business owner is responsible for quickly clearing any walkways/sidewalks/driveways they own and are in front of their homes or businesses. New York is ver…

I believe enforcement would solve the problem for Berlin as well. Just hand out substantial fines to change the calculus for the home owner. At the moment, the risk/reward is favoring doing nothing, so that's what a lot of people do.

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#142

Post by literalAardvark »

frm88 wrote: post #140
literalAardvark wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always just clean the snow instead of salting it. It's not rocket science.

It's not about the snow, snow is easy. It's about black ice of which we seem to have more in the last few years. Gravel doesn't cut it here - I broke my wrist last year and this year I salted the paved path to the front gate, I don't want to repeat 8 hours waiting in the ER, 2 surgeries and 3 months more or less out of commission.

That very rarely happens if the snow was cleared, since you'd need all that water to come from somewhere.

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#143

Post by frm88 »

literalAardvark wrote: post #142
frm88 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the snow, snow is easy. It's about black ice of which we seem to have more in the last few years. Gravel doesn't cut it here - I broke my wrist last year and this year I salted the paved path to the front gate, I don't want to repeat 8 hours waiting in the ER, 2 surgeries and 3 months more or less out of commission.

That very rarely happens if the snow was cleared, since you'd need all that water to come from somewhere.

This happened 2025 Jan 15-17 and this year Jan 12-14 in the area I live in. Rain and fog meets icy ground and then rain turns to snow. When I was in the ER last year the 8 hours wait time were due to 26 other broken bones patients and the ER was busy until 1:30 in the morning. It used to be rare, but that changed over the last couple of years.

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#145

Post by port11 »

olieidel wrote: post #64

Berlin is a great place to observe policies with good intentions, yet negative second-order effects. Distributing free potatoes will likely cause waste somewhere else, as e.g. people will buy less potatoes in supermarkets. The waste just becomes less visible as supermarkets dispose of food every day. Another current exhibit is the prohibition of using salt for removing snow and ice from the pavements because it's "ba…

The ban on salt isn’t silly, for a long time pebbles were good enough to prevent black ice, and perhaps even more effective than ice.

Donating potatoes that were about to go to waste might cause waste elsewhere, but what you propose is that we never give food away unless we can be absolutely sure it won’t cause waste in another sub-system. That’s a tall order. These potatoes were going to be waste anyway.

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#146

Post by jojomodding »

Aaronmacaron wrote: post #123
meindnoch wrote: post #108

>4,000 tons is almost four million kilograms It is exactly four million kilograms. (Germany uses the SI metric ton)

TIL there are two units of measurement that are both called ton but confusingly are not the same as a ton. One is a tiny bit more than a ton (1.016 tons) and one is a bit less (0.907 tons). Apparently people use the prefixes long and short to differentiate them, at least that part is intuitive.

Well, three, the two you mentioned and the metric ton (1000 kg)

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#147

Post by literalAardvark »

frm88 wrote: post #143
literalAardvark wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That very rarely happens if the snow was cleared, since you'd need all that water to come from somewhere.

This happened 2025 Jan 15-17 and this year Jan 12-14 in the area I live in. Rain and fog meets icy ground and then rain turns to snow. When I was in the ER last year the 8 hours wait time were due to 26 other broken bones patients and the ER was busy until 1:30 in the morning. It used to be rare, but that changed over the last couple of years.

Yeah I suppose it does depend a lot on the weather

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#148

Post by cafard »

tharkun__ wrote: post #132
Xylakant wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not salting or not - the problem is that the house owners are liable for cleaning the sidewalk and they all outsourced it to the same companies. And the companies unsurprisingly all fail to deliver on their obligations because they take on way more customers they could possibly handle. The result is as expected - nothing gets done. A shovel and broom, maybe some grit would have been enough. But there’s…

Or maybe don't make everyone responsible for the public roadway/sidewalk in front of their house and instead have the people that are responsible for all other things public roadway/sidewalk be responsible? Works elsewhere, why not in Germany, where taxes should actually be even better able to cover it? [yes I know people in Germany, even specifically in Berlin and no this is not a Berlin specific thing] Like where I…

My recollection--from Ohio, Colorado, Maryland, and Washington, DC--is that in the US the property owner is generally responsible for the sidewalk.

We are wary of salt, having damaged a stretch of sidewalk in a rowhouse development by heavily salting it one winter. Others, and the city of Washington, will put down salt at the least probability of snow.

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#149

Post by tharkun__ »

Xylakant wrote: post #134
tharkun__ wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe don't make everyone responsible for the public roadway/sidewalk in front of their house and instead have the people that are responsible for all other things public roadway/sidewalk be responsible? Works elsewhere, why not in Germany, where taxes should actually be even better able to cover it? [yes I know people in Germany, even specifically in Berlin and no this is not a Berlin specific thing] Like where I…

Funny that you would propose such a practical and simple solution. This has been proposed by the Green Party in Berlin and I’m surprised you didn’t hear the wailing choir of house owners across the Atlantic. “Too impractical”, “too costly”, “who would pay for that?”. Thing is, the current system works well for all people except the ones that want to walk on the icy pavement. Politicians aren’t responsible. House owne…

Funny indeed. Now that you mention it, I can "hear" the complaining voices in my mind, yes :) So very German of them too!

Funny you mention cost. This year our town actually did not contract out the snow clearing of the roadways to a contractor like they've done for decades past, because it became too expensive (or rather the percentage increase I believe was the trigger). So instead the city is now doing the snow clearing themselves! I would call this very good stewardship of our property tax payments, which is what pays for that. Just now instead of going to greedy contractors (let's face it, most of that money isn't going to the people actually doing the snow clearing) and instead it will go towards paying the salaries of actual city employees (not sure how many temporary) and I guess equipment cost.

Most people here also get a local contractor or in our case it's usually one of the farms around the area, that offer snow clearing of your driveway. Both the actual driveway, which around here can be quite large, and for clearing the large amounts of snow and ice left across your driveway by the city plows clearing the roads. Essentially tractors with snow blower attachments on the back PTO. Like this: https://www.deere.ca/assets/images/region-4/products/attachm...

Re: 4k tons of potatoes to be given away for free in Berlin

#150

Post by dietr1ch »

olieidel wrote: post #64

Berlin is a great place to observe policies with good intentions, yet negative second-order effects. Distributing free potatoes will likely cause waste somewhere else, as e.g. people will buy less potatoes in supermarkets. The waste just becomes less visible as supermarkets dispose of food every day. Another current exhibit is the prohibition of using salt for removing snow and ice from the pavements because it's "ba…

Good point on the second order concern, but I'd get potatoes and keep non-perishable food for later. Assuming the exact same weight or available caloric intake will be wasted is too simplistic.
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